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	<title>Comments on: For Experience</title>
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	<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/</link>
	<description>Mormon women blogging about the peculiar and the treasured</description>
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		<title>By: PlutoMom</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113802</link>
		<dc:creator>PlutoMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 20:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113802</guid>
		<description>Passing judgment on an action is not the same as judging a person.  Presumably you would not say it&#039;s wrong to criticize someone who abandoned a child.  I grant that we all experience things in different ways, but perception is different from action. And people should speak up to prevent future actions they &quot;judge&quot; as morally wrong.  Whether it all evens out in Heaven or not, we live here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Passing judgment on an action is not the same as judging a person.  Presumably you would not say it&#8217;s wrong to criticize someone who abandoned a child.  I grant that we all experience things in different ways, but perception is different from action. And people should speak up to prevent future actions they &#8220;judge&#8221; as morally wrong.  Whether it all evens out in Heaven or not, we live here.</p>
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		<title>By: Ma Fitz</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113762</link>
		<dc:creator>Ma Fitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113762</guid>
		<description>I find this an interesting thread. Not one of us can (or should anyway) stand in judgment of another. Of course we can think about what we &quot;might&quot; do in similar circumstances, but the truth is that there really aren&#039;t identical circumstances for anybody. We all go through life experiencing different things in different ways. Even if we are participants in the same exact experience, at the same exact moment (in a particular Sacrament Mtg., for instance), our own perceptions give us a unique perspective on what we felt and thought, different from what the person sitting next to us may think or feel.

Therefore, we cannot judge Courtney&#039;s decision because, no matter whether we&#039;ve been faced with something similar, we do not live in her shoes and see life through her unique glasses. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, that at that particular moment in time they were doing their best given all they know and feel. It may be different than our best, but it is THEIR best. Thank heaven we don&#039;t have to judge them, and in fact, have been COMMANDED not to! We&#039;re off the hook. We can hear of another&#039;s experience and have no obligation whatsoever to make a judgment about them. We can, of course, think through what WE might do in a similar set of circumstances, but even then, sometimes we&#039;re wrong about ourselves. We surprise ourselves at many turns, feeling and behaving differently than we actually thought we would.

Even though I am an animal ADORER, particularly of dogs, and happen to be an empath (I can physically feel their pain), I understand that each person is doing their best at that moment, and in the end, God makes it all okay because the Atonement covers animals as well as it covers us. And that, my friends, is how we all survive in this world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this an interesting thread. Not one of us can (or should anyway) stand in judgment of another. Of course we can think about what we &#8220;might&#8221; do in similar circumstances, but the truth is that there really aren&#8217;t identical circumstances for anybody. We all go through life experiencing different things in different ways. Even if we are participants in the same exact experience, at the same exact moment (in a particular Sacrament Mtg., for instance), our own perceptions give us a unique perspective on what we felt and thought, different from what the person sitting next to us may think or feel.</p>
<p>Therefore, we cannot judge Courtney&#8217;s decision because, no matter whether we&#8217;ve been faced with something similar, we do not live in her shoes and see life through her unique glasses. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, that at that particular moment in time they were doing their best given all they know and feel. It may be different than our best, but it is THEIR best. Thank heaven we don&#8217;t have to judge them, and in fact, have been COMMANDED not to! We&#8217;re off the hook. We can hear of another&#8217;s experience and have no obligation whatsoever to make a judgment about them. We can, of course, think through what WE might do in a similar set of circumstances, but even then, sometimes we&#8217;re wrong about ourselves. We surprise ourselves at many turns, feeling and behaving differently than we actually thought we would.</p>
<p>Even though I am an animal ADORER, particularly of dogs, and happen to be an empath (I can physically feel their pain), I understand that each person is doing their best at that moment, and in the end, God makes it all okay because the Atonement covers animals as well as it covers us. And that, my friends, is how we all survive in this world!</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113709</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113709</guid>
		<description>While I believe that fate and faith guide us through life, and that, through the power of prayer, we can find the right path- I find it difficult to see a path that would lead to this decision.

God wants us to take responsibilities for our decisions, be they right or wrong.  When we sin, we can only move past it, and not repeat it, by recognizing it and facing the consequences.

I was taught, through the church, about the sanctity of life.  I remember asking about animals, and if they have souls.  While the answer I received did not leave me completely satisfied, I left with the overwhelming feeling that they do have a presence that we, as their guardians, are requested to protect.

If I were in the same position, while I can completely understand your need to remove this dog from your life, I can imagine that my approach would be quite different.   Knowing that death by gas chamber is considered an awful way to die by human right advocates and animal rights advocates, I would probably have taken the dog to the vet for humane euthanization if a proper home could not be found.  Prior to that, I would attempt to find the dog a home by contacting local animal adoption agencies, preferably no-kill, attending adoption days, and advertising in local media (craigslist, pennysaver, newspaper).  
While some might argue that it seems like a lot of a trouble for a dog, it was a responsibility undertaken from the moment the person chose the dog/puppy as their own.  As the only person looking out for the interest of an innocent/ward, it is our responsibility, as owners, to take charge of the animals fate and to, within the best of our ability, guide it to a right and proper path/end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I believe that fate and faith guide us through life, and that, through the power of prayer, we can find the right path- I find it difficult to see a path that would lead to this decision.</p>
<p>God wants us to take responsibilities for our decisions, be they right or wrong.  When we sin, we can only move past it, and not repeat it, by recognizing it and facing the consequences.</p>
<p>I was taught, through the church, about the sanctity of life.  I remember asking about animals, and if they have souls.  While the answer I received did not leave me completely satisfied, I left with the overwhelming feeling that they do have a presence that we, as their guardians, are requested to protect.</p>
<p>If I were in the same position, while I can completely understand your need to remove this dog from your life, I can imagine that my approach would be quite different.   Knowing that death by gas chamber is considered an awful way to die by human right advocates and animal rights advocates, I would probably have taken the dog to the vet for humane euthanization if a proper home could not be found.  Prior to that, I would attempt to find the dog a home by contacting local animal adoption agencies, preferably no-kill, attending adoption days, and advertising in local media (craigslist, pennysaver, newspaper).<br />
While some might argue that it seems like a lot of a trouble for a dog, it was a responsibility undertaken from the moment the person chose the dog/puppy as their own.  As the only person looking out for the interest of an innocent/ward, it is our responsibility, as owners, to take charge of the animals fate and to, within the best of our ability, guide it to a right and proper path/end.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Trott</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113645</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Trott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113645</guid>
		<description>I usually believe things happen for a reason.  And so, I believe that it is quite possible that the re-visiting of this post was meant to be.   Perhaps it was meant to be that the first group of people who commented on her story would give her hugs.  And perhaps it was meant to be that years later, when the time was right, Courtney herself would ask others to read it and comment so that a new understanding could be brought to light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually believe things happen for a reason.  And so, I believe that it is quite possible that the re-visiting of this post was meant to be.   Perhaps it was meant to be that the first group of people who commented on her story would give her hugs.  And perhaps it was meant to be that years later, when the time was right, Courtney herself would ask others to read it and comment so that a new understanding could be brought to light.</p>
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		<title>By: Maralise</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113604</link>
		<dc:creator>Maralise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113604</guid>
		<description>Thank you all for your comments. Because this is an old post and Courtney is unavailable for comment (for obvious reasons), I&#039;m going to close comments in 24 hours (by Friday afternoon).  That should give everyone time to comment that would like to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for your comments. Because this is an old post and Courtney is unavailable for comment (for obvious reasons), I&#8217;m going to close comments in 24 hours (by Friday afternoon).  That should give everyone time to comment that would like to.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113602</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113602</guid>
		<description>An estimated 9.6 million animals are euthanized in the United States every year.
No kill shelter does not mean that no animals are euthanized.
Animals are killed for many reasons at no kill shelters. Illness and lack of socialization being two of the main ones.  Shelters are very, VERY, stressful for animals. They often go in healthy and end up with a variety of problems which lead to them being put down. 

Your nice social pet may not be so nice when they are at the shelter, being deemed not social is a death sentence.

Shelters are there for the animals who truly need them, not as an easy out for people who cant deal with it any more.  (I am sure some will disagree about the decision to   surrender you pet as easy. It is much easier than what your trusting pet is going through.)

-Christine, owner of 2 very difficult dogs, and many fury inducing cats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An estimated 9.6 million animals are euthanized in the United States every year.<br />
No kill shelter does not mean that no animals are euthanized.<br />
Animals are killed for many reasons at no kill shelters. Illness and lack of socialization being two of the main ones.  Shelters are very, VERY, stressful for animals. They often go in healthy and end up with a variety of problems which lead to them being put down. </p>
<p>Your nice social pet may not be so nice when they are at the shelter, being deemed not social is a death sentence.</p>
<p>Shelters are there for the animals who truly need them, not as an easy out for people who cant deal with it any more.  (I am sure some will disagree about the decision to   surrender you pet as easy. It is much easier than what your trusting pet is going through.)</p>
<p>-Christine, owner of 2 very difficult dogs, and many fury inducing cats.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113586</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113586</guid>
		<description>Wow. That must have been a really tough decision.

I guess my whole thing is, IF I ever get a dog, I will be fully ready, willing, and prepared to hire trainers and devote as much time and effort as necessary to properly training/exercising it, so such a situation as this doesn&#039;t arise. It seems that maybe that was not how your family approached it, and ended up getting burned from that decision.

I just think that if you get the dog, the dog is then your responsibility until either it dies, or if you don&#039;t think you can keep it because of your sanity, then find it a home with a family who is willing to devote the time to re-train it appropriately. But I subscribe to Cesar&#039;s philosophy that there&#039;s no bad dog, just owners who don&#039;t know how to train them...

But I understand that was a very tough decision. I think if it had been me, and I&#039;d gone through that much for that long, I&#039;d have taken the dog to a no-kill shelter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That must have been a really tough decision.</p>
<p>I guess my whole thing is, IF I ever get a dog, I will be fully ready, willing, and prepared to hire trainers and devote as much time and effort as necessary to properly training/exercising it, so such a situation as this doesn&#8217;t arise. It seems that maybe that was not how your family approached it, and ended up getting burned from that decision.</p>
<p>I just think that if you get the dog, the dog is then your responsibility until either it dies, or if you don&#8217;t think you can keep it because of your sanity, then find it a home with a family who is willing to devote the time to re-train it appropriately. But I subscribe to Cesar&#8217;s philosophy that there&#8217;s no bad dog, just owners who don&#8217;t know how to train them&#8230;</p>
<p>But I understand that was a very tough decision. I think if it had been me, and I&#8217;d gone through that much for that long, I&#8217;d have taken the dog to a no-kill shelter.</p>
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		<title>By: PlutoMom</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113481</link>
		<dc:creator>PlutoMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 04:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113481</guid>
		<description>I have one blind, deaf, and &quot;leaky&quot; old dog and another dog who&#039;s had $7,000 worth of surgery that we really couldn&#039;t afford. I agree with Caroline: To see these old friends through to the end is an honor.  I&#039;m sure it&#039;s what God calls us to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one blind, deaf, and &#8220;leaky&#8221; old dog and another dog who&#8217;s had $7,000 worth of surgery that we really couldn&#8217;t afford. I agree with Caroline: To see these old friends through to the end is an honor.  I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s what God calls us to do.</p>
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		<title>By: hip_baby</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113477</link>
		<dc:creator>hip_baby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 03:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113477</guid>
		<description>Courtney provided the link to this site, thereby re-opening the topic herself.  She is manifestly a strong person and will benefit from the views expressed here. Respectful disagreement with someone&#039;s actions--especially in a moral cause--should not be considered an attack.  Since Courtney is two decades younger than I, I feel that it was appropriate to express disagreement with a position I feel she hasn&#039;t thought through clearly.  I believe that we have an absolute responsibility to *all* God&#039;s creatures and that commitments we make to pets must be honored. If my post ruffles some feathers--but saves another dog from being impounded--it will have been worth it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Courtney provided the link to this site, thereby re-opening the topic herself.  She is manifestly a strong person and will benefit from the views expressed here. Respectful disagreement with someone&#8217;s actions&#8211;especially in a moral cause&#8211;should not be considered an attack.  Since Courtney is two decades younger than I, I feel that it was appropriate to express disagreement with a position I feel she hasn&#8217;t thought through clearly.  I believe that we have an absolute responsibility to *all* God&#8217;s creatures and that commitments we make to pets must be honored. If my post ruffles some feathers&#8211;but saves another dog from being impounded&#8211;it will have been worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pauline</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/cjane-speaks/for-experience/#comment-113460</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/blog/?p=78#comment-113460</guid>
		<description>Becky,
What I enjoy most about Segullah is that a &quot;variety of women&#039;s perspectives&quot; are heard and that comments focus on the &quot;argument not the person.&quot;  Except for one or 2, the comments do focus on the issue and not the person. The issue for me is one&#039;s responsibility to pets. I generally go through life trying to focus on lessons learned instead of having regrets. I read the post (for the very first time today because just yesterday the author asked readers of her blog to read it by placing a link to it on her blog) and feel that it is worthwhile to share with others that people who are having a difficult time coping with pets have many alternatives.  That, I believe is a lesson learned and a valuable one to share -- as many recent posters did.
(It feels to me that any statement that is not 100% full of approval and praise is at risk of being labeled an insult or attack.  In order for their to be different perspectives there has to be different opinions.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becky,<br />
What I enjoy most about Segullah is that a &#8220;variety of women&#8217;s perspectives&#8221; are heard and that comments focus on the &#8220;argument not the person.&#8221;  Except for one or 2, the comments do focus on the issue and not the person. The issue for me is one&#8217;s responsibility to pets. I generally go through life trying to focus on lessons learned instead of having regrets. I read the post (for the very first time today because just yesterday the author asked readers of her blog to read it by placing a link to it on her blog) and feel that it is worthwhile to share with others that people who are having a difficult time coping with pets have many alternatives.  That, I believe is a lesson learned and a valuable one to share &#8212; as many recent posters did.<br />
(It feels to me that any statement that is not 100% full of approval and praise is at risk of being labeled an insult or attack.  In order for their to be different perspectives there has to be different opinions.)</p>
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