85 Responses to “Domesticity–Outsourced?”

1. alanna
   April 7th, 2009 @ 6:27 am

   My own angel and devil have differing opinions on this post.

   My angel reminds me of how wonderful it is to have homemade bread in the house. Not just for the wonderful taste & smell, but because of how my son loves to help me “cook” and how accomplished I feel in actually making something from scratch. Such activities enrich all of us in our home.

   The devil on my other shoulder rudely interjects with, “If your great-grandmother had a microwave she would have used it–a lot!” And I wonder if we admire people for doing things the hard way when it was the only way?

   I do think about the phrase “customs of necessity” frequently. I read a book in college written by someone reflecting on the transition from plantation life to city life. I can’t remember the name of the author or book, but this post was the gist of it. He basically said that when we are no longer required to labor for the customs of necessity (getting water, picking food, etc) that we lose connections–to each other and our environments.

   It made an impression on me. I’m working on silencing my own ‘devil’ and passing that on to my children in a healthy manner so they can appreciate these lessons and not resent them. I’ll be watching the comments for advice on HOW exactly to accomplish that.

2. Leslie
   April 7th, 2009 @ 6:33 am

   oh alanna thanks for sharing this idea– “He basically said that when we are no longer required to labor for the customs of necessity (getting water, picking food, etc) that we lose connections–to each other and our environments.” I like that idea and phrase.

   Have you ever read Habits of the Heart by Robert Bellah et. al. -good read on individualism, community, meaning

3. Emily U
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:15 am

   My dad has lamented the fact that sewing one’s own clothing is a “lost art.” However, he has never sewn an article of clothing in his life. My mom, however, sewed almost all of my and my sister’s dresses when we were little girls, even into the teen years. She doesn’t sew any more.

   I’m of the opinion that just because something was done in the past, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s still a good thing. I guess I’m just not very nostalgic. Fabric is actually pretty expensive these days, and it’s usually cheaper to buy clothes, especially when you factor in that your time is worth something. I enjoy sewing, but I see it as a craft, a leisure activity that I am lucky enough to be able to indulge in occasionally.

   I don’t have domestic “help,” but let me tell you, if I could afford it I’d have it in a heartbeat.

   But, I agree completely that replacing family activities (working together and playing together) with electronic entertainment should be reduced as much as possible.

4. Jenny
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:21 am

   regarding your question:
   “Are we robbing ourselves and our children”
   My answer is a resounding YES!
   Like Alanna mentions, If our granparents had microwaves and steam mops, you can bet they would have used them–a LOT!
   It’s not so much about taking advantage of advances in technology (and domesticity) but it is about depriving the next generation of that inherent value of WORK, whether it’s in the home, in the yard, or at a summer job that isn’t our favorite, but teaches us to appreciate the concept of hard work and to find our place in that world. How do I plead?
   GUILTY.
   I need to ‘up’ the level of my self-discipline so as not to resort to electronic entertainment and meals of convenience so much. Part of the reason I like to prepare meals quickly, is because slowly and lovingly prepared meals require a greater clean-up effort from the mess left behind. I need to also pass along the task of cleaning up, to those enjoying the fruits of my labor without feeling bad about using up someone else’s time or inconveniencing them. Great thoughts.

5. Leslie
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:24 am

   emily- Thanks for sharing your views– To me they are unsettled questions– am I nostalgic or is there something deeper in the maslowian nature of these tasks?

   Indeed- it is often cheaper to buy it than to make it- hence why I will still buy my shirts at Target, but when something is homemade I feel it carries a different value. Like Saturday I was at a dressy dinner dance auction and someone complimented me on my dress (which my grandmother had made for me). I thought of her work, it makes me appreciate it far more than something I dropped a couple hundred on at macy’s. I find I want to use it to it’s fullest more?

   Do you think when we lose these arts (as you dad called it) we lose appreciation for or take for granted the basic necessities of living?

6. Leslie
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:29 am

   I am trying to earn penitence for my years of yard distaste (although I do love mulching) by planting and nuturing new fruit trees and being more diligent in my garden.

   I hear you on the meals and I made a nice dinner for my husbands birthday last week and sat laughing at the table that in 15 minutes the hours of work were finished and cleanup still awaited! but it felt personal and I like to think that counts for something–the time sacrifice means more as that is the scarcity, not the the money in the wallet for one more night out.

7. Pasha Plum
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:41 am

   I can’t afford a house cleaner but in the book The 1st Ladies Detective Agency, (I think that is the title). The main character says that in Botswanan culture a person is considered selfish if she does not hire help but can afford it. I have completely bought into that idea and plan to hire a housekeeper when I finish school and am bringing in some money. I do think we need to be connected to our daily lives and I am a big proponent of knowing how to sew, cook, repair, clean and build. I just don’t want to do it all the time.

8. Emily U
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:45 am

   That’s an interesting question, Leslie. I think it’s important to not take the necessities of life for granted, and we may lose appreciation for them when they come so easily.

   But I know I appreciate homemade bread, clothes sewn at home, and things like that because they are choices, not requirements, in my life. I craved store-bought bread as a kid because my mom made almost all our bread (and I didn’t appreciate it). Now I crave home-made bread, and neither my mom nor I make it very often. The appearance of the “slow food” and organic movements are, in my opinion, evidence of affluence and privilege.

   I’ve felt the most gratitude for life’s necessities when I’ve felt the lack of them in some small way, or seen others truly go without. Baking bread makes me a bit more grateful that I can buy it at the store, but not nearly as much as remembering those who have no bread.

9. Kay
   April 7th, 2009 @ 7:48 am

   I think we all want an easy life in some respects but we all have values too. The things that are important in one family are not so important to others. I don’t have a cleaner but would love one. I have to admit that every time I have a baby I get one for the first 6 months, so I can have time to get used to the new routines, feeding etc without going crazy about mess. For me the one thing I am fairly fanatical on is food. I love to cook and feel that eating a home cooked meal is central to health. Therefore I spend a good deal of time cooking from scratch. I also have what my gran would call an ‘old fashioned baking day’ a couple of times a week. I spend hours baking up cakes, pies, cookies, soups etc. I love it though and my husband does call it my therapy. I do admit to the occasional takeaway but it is rare, and I also insist that we all eat together for breakfast and dinner. I feel it helps hold us all together. I would have a cleaner and a gardener in an instant if it were possible because doing these things is less important to me. Would I fel guilty? Not a bit. Life is swings and roundabouts

10. cheryl
    April 7th, 2009 @ 7:59 am

    Oh, the sewing –a talent that has proven time and again to elude me. Sigh. I asked my husband’s grandmother once (who is an amazing seamstress) about sewing children’s clothes and she said what was mentioned before –basically, don’t sew your kids’ clothes! You can’t afford it! I think she had a good point. Plus I was glad I didn’t have to learn a whole new skill set in a day!

    Very good post, though. Husband tried to get me to hire someone to clean the house a few years back, but I could never bring myself to do it. I just kept thinking about my great-grandmother, and how she raised her 11 kids out on the ranch and was a midwife and school teacher and, etc. etc. And then I thought of my own grandmother and her pride and joy in doing hard things herself. I was really close to doing it, but decided against it in the end. For now, I’m glad. BUT! I have a friend with four children under the age of 5, and she has a cleaning lady come twice a month. I would, too, in her situation!

    We used to have a lawn service, but I cancelled them for financial reasons. Now I’m stuck with either doing it myself or hiring a neighbor kid (I’m already 23 weeks pregnant, chances are HUGE that I’ll be hiring!) because of my husband’s demanding schedule (school and work). Ah, well. We can’t always do it all, right? There’s nothing wrong in trying, but there’s nothing wrong in solutions that help us, either.

11. cheryl
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:01 am

    P.S. I will admit that I love it when the kids help me clean the house and yard –or when I watch them learn and do things of that type themselves. OR when I cook instead of ordering out. There really is a calm satisfaction and peace that comes when we have learned to be self-reliant…

12. eljee
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:29 am

    For me, it’s about balance. I’ve learned that I can’t do it all, because there have been times that I have tried. I have chosen some of the above things that are important to me, and I focus on those things. Cooking more from scratch and giving my family good meals is important to me right now, so I am doing that (but I use an online menu service to plan the menus and make the shopping list).

    I’ve outsourced my lawncare, and I don’t feel a bit guilty! We spent too much time and money getting the grass in to risk having the lawn ruined. However, we as a family do plenty of other work in the yard.

    I definitely limit outside activities for my young children. We have done a very low-key neighborhood preschool for my oldest, but I am seriously considering homeschooling preschool for my daughter. I have considered homeschooling in general for my family but decided against it for now. I do plan to limit the number of after-school activities that my children can be involved in.

    I buy most of my children’s clothing at outlet stores, but I’ve recently become interested in heirloom sewing and just made my first heirloom dress for my dd for Easter. It was quite the experience to put such time and care into something, and it did make me feel connected to something greater than myself. My reasons for doing this were entirely frivolous and nostalgic–it will definitely be a hobby and not a fulltime, everyday thing. However, I’ve also decided to use cloth diapers for my next baby, which I plan to make myself. I’ve discovered that I really love sewing! I love creating in that way.

    Basically, I don’t feel guilty about the conveniences I use (most of them, anyway) because there are other areas that I value doing it myself. I think there is often more than one way to skin a cat, more than one way to teach ourselves and our children these values.

13. Shelah
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:30 am

    It’s funny you mention this, because my house cleaner just pulled up. Having a cleaner is a new thing for me, we decided to hire someone when we put our house on the market a few weeks ago. It’s taken some getting used to, mainly because I feel so idle when she’s here (typing away at the computer while she scrubs my toilets) but I also know that she really needed the work (we hired her after hearing about her from a friend). I’m all for making my life easier– I make things like curtains, but not my kids’ clothes, regularly buy food from the Schwan’s delivery truck, and don’t feel too bad about hiring the occasional babysitter. As long as I’m doing something good with my time in return. If I’m just lazing away on the internet (is that what I’m doing now?) then that’s a problem.

14. Naismith
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:37 am

    I have had a cleaning service for years. One of the reasons is because our church callings. We don’t buy leisure time; we buy time for service.

    As others have said, it is all about balance and none of us can do it all. We eat dinner together most every nights, and it is just about always home-cooked. I do sew and can and bake and garden.

    Also, as a missionary my husband had a cleaning person, cook and laundry person. It wasn’t Botswana but another country with similar philosophy, and that has influenced our opinion on the matter.

15. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:53 am

    you raise an excellent point about employing others- something we can also weigh in the equation

    when i lived in turkey (2.5 yrs)as a child. It was an “expectation” to help support the conomy- we always hated that our mom made us clean up and make our beds before the maid came- she was determined not to have it effect our work.

16. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:55 am

    I grew up in the same way- we used to think oreos were over the moon because ours were always homemade. I apprecaite though the hours in the kitchen that taught me how to bake those things now.
    I am a breadmaker too!

17. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:56 am

    Kay I love how you have found a way to keep your own special “domestic signature” in food- that is great

18. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:57 am

    i wonder how they did it back in the day- I feel so soft and leisure loving by comparison!

    our lives will go through many phases and what might be just what we need at one might be different at another.

    I too love that “sweetness” of self reliance

19. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:59 am

    Our lawn never is gorgeous- Probably due to my slothful watering!

    I like your thoughts that there can be mulitple avenues in our current world for teaching the same values

20. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 9:02 am

    I do often feel frustrated at the comparative state of our house to that of my neighbors- I try to remember it is sometimes because I have more children and they don’t have 4+ hours on sunday (or the whole sabbath day holy part) plus all the stuff during the week.

21. Melissa
    April 7th, 2009 @ 9:19 am

    Like so many things, I don’t think this is about the outward action so much as our attitude toward it. And often, the best way to learn humility/gratitude is to experience the work. We appreciate the pretty lawn, the clean house, the home-cooked meal, the hand-sewn clothes more when we have an understanding of the work and sacrifice that went into making them.

    I also think that these are valuable skills, even if we don’t use them or need them often. I would love to know how to sew, even if I didn’t do it often. Same thing with gardening, even though it’s cheaper to buy. The knowledge is inherently valuable, and it does connect us to those who share it. We’re fortunate to live in a time when we can gain these skills and use them as hobbies without the pressure of our survival hinging on success or failure.

22. jendoop
    April 7th, 2009 @ 9:56 am

    My feelings are fairly strong on this one. My parents both grew up on farms and were instilled with a strong sense of self-reliance and mammoth work ethic. If you didn’t do it there was no store to buy it at in the depths of winter, you would go cold and hungry. I am grateful they passed those values down to me. I feel unease everytime I buy storebought cookies or pay someone else to fix something in my house when I could do it myself. There are values taught in the church that coinside with the values taught in my family – the law of the harvest, self-reliance, be prepared, etc.

    Barbara Kingsolver has a book- Animal, Vegetable, Miracle – it is a better argument for ‘do it yourself’ food than I could ever manage (if the prophet’s words weren’t enough). I want my children to be healthy so we have a garden. We cannot manage to grow everything we eat, but we do what we can- it tastes better too!

    Homeschooling isn’t something I can handle, but I admire those who do. I heard recently whisperings of a longer school day. That and other things would make me change over to homeschooling.

    I believe taking care of our temporal possessions shows Heavenly Father that we are thankful for them. Outsourcing that feels like outsourcing my gratitude. Are we coveting when we compare the state of our homes to our neighbors? This quest for worldly perfection is disconcerting, just my personal feeling.

    It is never far from my mind that the system we depend on to bring us Oreos and that “easy” sliced and baked bread, and cute t-shirt is a precarious house of cards. One blizzard. A truckers’ strike. A cotton blight. It is by the grace of God that the complicated system we depend on for goods and services works as well as it does. I am not an alarmist living in the back woods; I’m a normal mormon soccer mom. But these are the latter-days; how long before prophecies will come to pass and we will wish that we knew how to make our own oreos, bread and mend our children’s clothing? We have been told to be prepared, I don’t think that just means to have the material goods – we should have the skills to go with them.

23. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:11 am

    melissa- yesI think having thhose skills even if we just use them on occasion can bring us greater gratitude)i.e. my curtain sewing thoughts- it really made me stop and think abotu how mnay clothes I really needed and the use it up wear it ourt principle

    jendoop- I do worry if we become so used to all our conveniences, could we function without them? While my gardens are rarely highly successful- I feel a need to keep learning- believing every year i’ll learn something new and my skill/output will increase.

    An argument could be made for the buying of many goods (supporting the economy but it would also smack against the principles of thrift (i know it’s kind of a bad word for our generation). I love the correlation of these principles with elder hales talk on sat,

24. martha
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:27 am

    My husband and I often discuss the paradox of thrift. I don’t know that buying and being thrifty have to be opposed. Elder Hales did say that one of the reasons we are to be thrifty is so that we can share our means with others. There are a number of ways to do this; sometimes it means actually spending money.

    Currently we need to install our landscaping. We have the money to hire a crew to install sprinklers, sod, and to build garden beds. We know how to do these things ourselves and we love working in our yard and gardens, yet, there are families that are desperate for work at the moment and we feel it best to share the money we have set aside. There is plenty of work to do once these basics are done. I will be able to teach my children to plant and weed. For us, I think the right choice is providing work for those who need it.

    I do find joy in laboring with my hands. As the YW president, I spend time teaching the YW to cook, sew, clean, and garden. We don’t just teach these skills because they are resourceful, but because they also bring contentment, gratitude, and build self-esteem.

25. mormonhermitmom
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:29 am

    All very good points.

    But if I do all the sewing/cooking/cleaning that my great grandmother used to do (and she wasn’t even on a farm mind you…)I wouldn’t be on here right now, that’s for sure.

26. Sue
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:32 am

    My kids and I love to work in the garden and yard together. I just finished reading Last Child in the Woods, about how disconnected our children are becoming from nature. It’s a great book – a little dry in parts, but with a message I think people need to hear.

    I have mixed feelings about the rest of it. We can’t currently afford it, but I’ve had housecleaning help before. It was fantastic. I work part-time, and it let me spend my time on other things. I don’t think there is anything especially noble about scrubbing your own toilet.

    On the other hand, I’m a strong believer in chores for kids. I think it’s important for everyone (myself included) to not only know how to work hard, but to be expected to work at something on a regular basis. My dad had his faults, but he instilled a tremendous work ethic in all of his kids, and it’s been a real blessing.

    “Are TV, texting, and video games providing our children with turned on, plugged in, virtual experiences instead of togetherness and responsiblity?”

    Absolutely. And blogging, and twittering and facebooking, for that matter. I have strict rules for the kids regarding tv/computer time, and I had to make another set of rules for myself. I think I was kidding myself about how much time I was wasting online, being distracted and not fully present as a result.

27. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:39 am

    martha- yes buying and thrift need not be exclusive. My ocncern is sometimes the blind acceptance of spending and buying as virtuous.

    I think you are wise to weigh in favor of jobs at this time. I think thats why I find questions exist- these are fluid not static principles which require our thought and continuing balancing.

    and Kudos for teaching those YW- I think people often miss the satisfaction that can come from being skillfull.

28. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:41 am

    hermit mom- ahh yes-
    Sue- I have read last child in the woods too- a good book and it does make you want to get more nature experiences and outdoor time-

    we have saturday family clean hour– I love the feeling when it’s done. I find my kids are learning alot from it as well!

    amen on the blogging, et.al- and it’s not just kids but ourselves. we outsource ourselves very often

29. martha
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:44 am

    You are right Leslie. That is why Elder Hales talk was for me, I can almost justify a whole new wardrobe if I just spin it the right way:)

    But seriously, it is a hard balance, knowing when to spend and when to save. I think it requires a lot of personal honesty.

30. Amira
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:45 am

    I agree with eljee about balance. I don’t think there is anything inherently better in sewing your own clothes, or in homeschooling your children, or cleaning your own house, or cooking all of your food from scratch and having a garden and taking care of your yard yourself. Life can be hard enough without doing all of these things.

    But I still do a lot of these things. I do homeschool and garden when I have a piece of earth and we rarely eat anything that wasn’t cooked from our food storage and I quilt and weave and crochet and weave. Our apartment is small and my boys are able, if not willing, so cleaning is no problem. The laundry is hung to dry.

    But that means there are a lot of things we don’t get to do. What are we missing out on because we’re giving up a lot to live this way? There is no way I would ever argue that our lifestyle is better than anyone else’s. It just works for us.

    (And I don’t ever feel guilty for outsourcing anything or not “doing it all.” We already have so much more than our ancestors did to help us- unless your ancestors were better off than mine and had servants- that seems a little silly to worry about having someone else cook our dinner if we’ll take a hot shower in the morning, drive our kids to school, then come home and put the clothes in the washing machine and take something out of the fridge to eat while we write erudite things on the internet.)

31. Catania
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:50 am

    This post is reminding me of the talks by Elder Hales and Elder Oaks — especially when Elder Oaks mentioned the Law of the Harvest – how we need to work for the things that we get.

    I have to admit that I’ve begun to find so much satisfaction in the domesticity. It makes me wonder why it has such a bad rap. It makes me wonder why we value work out of the home (or meaningless errands, etc) more than these simple domestic duties that seem to be a lost art.

    I love to cook, and I’m getting better at cleaning. I really like making my house a home. For years, I was a single mother, and I wasn’t able to take the time to do any of the nurturing things that I yearned to do – (even dishes!) – I was so busy providing, I had little time to be a *mom*. Now that I’m remarried, I find so much joy in those little things – dishes, making lunches, vacuuming, making crafts with the kids. These aren’t overly mentally stimulating (which is why I still listen hours of NPR and read these blogs), but I find satisfaction in being able to provide a nurturing environment for my children.

    Oh – I’ve tried to start gardening (I live in an apartment right now, so it’s a little difficult), and I’ve found that I have a black thumb. Everything I touch dies, but I’m determined to get better at this. I want to grow and eat my own tomatoes one day!

32. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:55 am

    I like your thought of personal honesty- very true!

33. KR
    April 7th, 2009 @ 10:55 am

    I loved this post. This topic has been on my mind lately. When I first read the title, not knowing what the post was going to be about, the historian in me immediately went into defense mode about how it was much more common fifty years ago for middle-class and wealthy families to hire help with cooking and cleaning WHILE they had a SAHM in the house then it is now. However, as I read on, I could not help but emphatically agree how important physical work is and valuable it is for us to work to achieve as well as maintain what we have. I loved your questions, “If it’s too hard for us to take care of, does it mean excess? Is our house is too big? Do we have too much stuff? Is it time to simplify?”

    I think it is fine to outsource SOME of our labor because we have limited time and need to prioritize. That is why trade was invented – I will raise the sheep, you will spin the yarn, he will weave the garments, we will all have clothes. However, if we do not produce anything at all, if we do not even care for what is ours, then what use can we be to our families, to ourselves, or to the Lord?

34. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:02 am

    amira- it sounds like you are the embodiment of many of these principles, oh your weaving sounds interesting- can we see it somewhere (I love fabric arts)

    catania- good reminder of the law of the harvest conf tidbit- There is a great sem video on it I showed my students this morning=
    I should pull out that great brigham young quote that said we should spend less time working and more time edifying our minds–

    I think the effects on our children are not so much where they are schooled (I have done both- and find both beneficial and meaningful) but in the change institional values over time or the sheer number of hours they spend away form us in various activities.

35. jendoop
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:05 am

    KR, I really liked your point, especially this last bit of your post, “if we do not produce anything at all, if we do not even care for what is ours, then what use can we be to our families, to ourselves, or to the Lord?” We should be a part of the world-wide economy by producing something through work – not just being a consumer.

    Not that each person on this earth isn’t of worth, they are. But much of that worth is in their potential, eternal potential to become something. We will never develop that potential if we do not work.

36. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:06 am

    I guess I probably know the answers to those questions myself- (gulping guiltily) I think to our supersize culture leads us into this- as opposed to a more european model model of ownership/possessions.

    love you last paragraph on trade- end you ending question- fitting!

37. QueenScarlett
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:16 am

    I have to say… aren’t we lucky that we have the choice to do either, or… and even mix-it-up? We are so lucky to live now to have these choices.

    I think we pick what works best for us. I think if we stop caring internally about comparing ourselves to each other – this conflict will end. It comes down to being secure in making the best decisions that work for the best interest of the individuals in our families.

    When my girls were still a lot younger (now they’re 4 and 2) I didn’t have the time, or energy to cook from scratch all the time, let alone get the house cleaned. So …we did take-out a lot, simple, quick meals…and I had a house cleaner. I go crazy if I can’t have a few days a week where everything seemingly is in order.

    Now… I don’t have a house cleaner, my house isn’t always tidy…but it’s fun to have the girls follow me around and “help” in their own way. I also find my “zen” time preparing meals from scratch…nourishing my soul, as I am nourishing my family’s bodies.

    I have purchased a sewing machine…because I figure if we put our minds to it, we can learn anything… so far I’ve only sewn some pa’u skirts for hula… straight lines… well, semi-straight lines.

    We all have different seasons of life… sometimes we can do more, sometimes less. And that is OKAY. We’re here to learn… this life is one big, awesome education. So look at is as a constant chance to learn, sometimes fail, and learn again.

    I think if we concentrate on doing our best for the people who are most important (our own immediate families), and stop trying to compare with others, or compete – we’ll have less conflict in our own souls and find peace.

38. Tay
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:17 am

    It’s interesting to see the children raised in a time of prosperity versus the children raised during more financially trying times. Sometimes I feel like I’m pushing against a brick wall when it comes to determining wants versus needs. We’re bombarded in all directions with things that can make our lives easier and help us accomplish more. But I think in the end most of those things just make our lives more complicated.

39. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:24 am

    QS- I think you hit an important point at the heart of the arguement- what is best for our families- sometimes they might need more order sometimes they might need more responsiblity- yes the ebbing and flowing of seasons.

    tay-I think convience can be such a double edged sword- It can free us but to what end? to ultimately leave us to “spend our time on that which has no worth”? Our cultural messages pervades the core of our beliefs -That is why I feel I need this processing talked about with my kids

40. Michelle L.
    April 7th, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

    I love your thoughts L. I have a few things I refuse to outsource and others that I let go of happily. But I like the idea of constantly examining my choices.

41. Shanon
    April 7th, 2009 @ 12:29 pm

    We are so blessed to have all of the conveniences of life, but those conveniences bring more work. It would take our ancestors all day to do laundry by hand, but they only had a few pieces of clothing. We now have a washer and dryer that can do laundry so much quicker, but it still takes me all day, atleast two days a week to get all the laundry done because we have so much more. I don’t think my life is harder than my ancestors, it’s just different. They had to work to eat. I don’t have to do that, but I must be on guard at all times to make sure that there is not anything harmful coming into our home via the tv, internet, cell phones, mp3 player, radio, etc. I also have to create work for my children so they can learn the value of work. I don’t have fields for them to harvest, cows for them to milk, eggs to collect from the hen house so I find other things for them to do. I also hear that I am the only mother that makes my kids work on Saturdays (I don’t believe that, it’s just what my kids tell me:)

    As far as hiring out goes, our teenage children (especially our boys) do not have alot of opportunities to earn money. They are not usually asked to babysit, which is the way my daughter earns money. My son was hired recently to mow the yard for a family whose house is on the market, but have moved out of state. He has enjoyed the opportunity to earn money for a school trip and is learning the value of working hard and being financially responsible. For those who ask why he doesn’t get a part-time job, he doesn’t have the time. He has early am seminary, school, homework, band, and youth activities.

    I think we need to choose what is best for our family. Some families need extra help with the house, or yard, or children. I had someone clean our house for a while. At the end of the day, it wasn’t as clean but I didn’t get discouraged at the mess. When I spend an entire day cleaning, I turn into a lunatic following everyone around telling them to pick up their stuff. At that point in our lives I had a brand new baby with down syndrome and was spending most of my days in therapies. Having to not worry about housework was a blessing. At the time I was embarrassed that I couldn’t do it all. Looking back, I am surprised that I did as much as I did.

    Cooking, sewing, cleaning, yard work are all important skills to learn but we aren’t asked to learn and do in one day. We are given a whole lifetime to learn. We are asked to become perfect not be perfect.

42. traci
    April 7th, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

    When I was single and working 2 jobs I had no time for such things of domesticity than just the basics. Now I am married and home and I like doing the things I can. But I also know there are limits. I am handicapped and my husband is 13 yrs older than me and still working a job he commutes to. I have cleaning people come in twice a month to do the things we are not physically able to do ourselves. We have a yard guy for the same reason, altho I can garden. These people also depend on us for their work, so I see it can be a part of service too.

    My husband likes to go out to eat, so I bend to this when he starts feeling boxed in. Many nites we cook together. I cook all the dog food – 20 cups a day and am building a garden more each year and starting food storage. I can sew and do most needlecraft – but it is not always cost effective – i pick and choose.

    I agree that attitude is the question here and the idea that I can do these things if needed. Also that I am actively promoting the nexxt generation to be able to do the same.

43. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 1:11 pm

    michelle- yes the evaulation- key

    shanon- you are correct we have many more things to tend to than they did in days past. at least for me babysitting money from ym teenage years paid for some of my college expense. It was a good lesson in saving for something you really want.
    I am glad you could trade off the housework -that is the blessing of our times, ot be able to use it when we need it for our families- And I always have special appreciation for those therapy schedules.

    traci- yes our individual situations definitely vary and so should our expectations of ourselves- homemade dog food- wow!

44. anonymous for this one
    April 7th, 2009 @ 1:26 pm

    Hi Leslie,
    This is a painful topic for me. I really do resonnate to and appreciate your questions. I know you would never want to offend anyone with this. But my first reaction is distress. Let me see if I can explain why.

    My seamstress mother and both grandmothers died before I turned 12, so I never learned to sew. When I tried in school, I was appalled at the cost of notions and serger, etc, I have bought all our clothes used, at garage sales and second hand stores our whole lives for $1-3 each. (Some people consider this leaching on the charity of society; some see it as economical recycling; pick your side.) If you want to sew for beauty and art and personal satisfaction, I’m all for that. It can’t be frugality, though. I read The Tightwad Gazette and was horrified that the 99 cent quilt (based on scrap material) took 66 HOURS to make. And here’s what kills me: any gorgeous homemade heirloom quilt can be ruined IN ONE SECOND by a good baby blowout diaper, same as the $30 kind from a discount store (made by Indonesians who need the work). A gorgeous homemade pantsuit (let alone kid clothes) can likewise be ruined by one well-placed baby stained handprint, in just seconds. The idea of wasting all that time on something that “moth and rust and babies doth corrupt” so easily just kills me.

    We garden some for the preservation of skill based on commandments, and I attempt homemade food for the nutrition (though every single child prefers Ramen). We own dozens of cans of wheat, and my kids can eat it boiled with brown sugar. But I am disgusted at how expensive a good wheat grinder and BOSCHE mixer are. All the “frugal” canning equipment is costly too–as are all the trappings, water, etc. for a garden. Store produce (while not organic) is usually much cheaper than canning your own. Canning peaches is lovely for those rich enough, and permanently located enough to own big yards with trees.

    I can’t AFFORD to be “frugal” in the homemade sense very often. And frankly, the current prophets talk a lot about resisting materialism and learning to work, but not so much any more about these traditions which many members worldwide, like myself, can’t afford. Members in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, (and lowly me in the USA) etc. are all living in tiny areas that don’t admit space for chickens and quilting stands.

    I can’t speak for the old farm women with 11 kids, but I bet a few of them had horribly dirty houses by today’s standards (like my aunt) or lost their temper a lot (like my grandmother). I have 5 children under age 7, and NO family living nearby. The TV saves my sanity. And I think my time is MUCH better spent trying to find time to exercise (once per week–too much to ask?) and read scriptures, than it is making 1-2 hour meals (we never eat out) and sewing curtains ($9 walmart work fine).

    Reading over my answer, I’m afraid I sound defensive. Forgive me. I can’t think of anything I outsource, (not even much babysitting–can’t afford it) except, by your definition, store bought food and already sewn textiles. I’m trying my best to live the commandments of visiting teaching (6 ladies) and fultilling callings (4 between my husband and me) and connecting long distance with massive Mormon families, and nursing my baby. I wish I didn’t also feel guilty that I’m not also running a farm in my back yard.

    Maybe I speak for a few silent lurkers. I hope not, for their sakes.

45. traci
    April 7th, 2009 @ 1:50 pm

    Thank you for this dose of reality! You are a brave and virtuous soul for writing it. If you sound defensive, it is instead the ability to defend what needs to be defended.

46. Sara
    April 7th, 2009 @ 1:56 pm

    I agree with you anonymous and am proud of you for speaking up. Thanky you for saying exactly how I feel. It can be hard when you don’t have the money or resources.

47. Fairchild
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

    A couple of thoughts come to mind. One is something that my aunt once told my mom when they were talking about canning food. It is important to have the skill to know how to can in case you need to, but it doesn’t mean you HAVE to can if you can’t/don’t want to. I think there is a lot of merit in knowing how to do things even if we’re not currently doing them. We could if we had to.

    The other thought is socioeconomic. For me, it has all depended on how much money I have. When we were young and poorer, I did a lot of things myself because I had to. Money was more valuable than the time. Now that hubby is fifteen years into his career and we are making tons more money it is hard for me to be motivated to do those things when I don’t have to. It’s actually been harder to have money than to be poor. Now we have to pick and choose how to spend the money. Do we save it all so we have security and give it away when we are older (what hubby wants to do) or do we give it away now since we have so much (what I want to do). How can we be wise stewards? What would the Lord want us to do with the extra?

    I could easily afford a cleaning lady but I would be the only one in my ward with one and I just can’t bring myself to do it. Too much guilt somewhere. My parents divorced when I was 11 and my mom had to go to work full-time an hour away. So, just as I was reaching the age to learn domestic skills, she had no time to teach us. So, I don’t know how to sew or craft or garden. I wasn’t planning on being a SAHM, but now that I am one I wish I had more domestic skills. At least I can cook and clean!

    Great post. I love discussing this kind of stuff.

48. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

    I am sorry you found this distressing- In the original post you will see I simply place in discussion the concept of outsourcing in a domestic context, I merely question how the trends away from these historically domestic tasks can impact our appreciation/understanding of some things. I do not advocate everything need be homemade or that this equivocates to righteousness. Quilting and chickens or canning may be individual examples of peoples decisions in areas of self reliance but there is no counsel that these apply to all- nor should be throw them under the bus for using their skills or materials?
    Those of the past were I am sure just as we are today filled with individual strengths and weaknesses. still I bet many of them could kick us to the curb when it comes to work ethic-
    Quite simply, I do think many of the skills at the heart of self reliance are being lost. I think many of us have gotten soft to the actual labor required for much of our goods. Where you give the example of 66 hrs to make a quilt – whether by my hand or by Indonesians- understanding that will make us more respectful and careful with our goods- no matter who they are made by.
    As no one is suggesting meals need be extravagant- I am all for wholesome and simple and fast.
    I too live more than a days drive from any family, where Lds members are few and far between, and have to balance busy demands, it is indeed very challenging. I am sorry my delivery of the concept was unclear.

49. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:08 pm

    I guess I don’t see this as a finaincial or socioeconmoic issue- but rather on that relates to all stratas and cultures. I am advocating that we find more meaning in the work that we do in our homes instead of absorbing the social belief that nothing can be learned or gained from the day to day tasks in the home.

50. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

    My mom grew up not a member and far removed from such skills- I appreciate her dedication to constantly improve herself and learn a variety of useful skills. I am still a novice in many many areas- but committed to improving and learning good and useful things. I have always thought God loves useful people. The more skills & knowledge we acquire the more we can serve and the more opportunties we have.

51. anonymous (me again)
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

    Hi Leslie,
    I should clarify as well. I’ve read many of your posts over time, and I think you’re wonderful at being loving and non-judgemental Your post of itself did not distress me. Your topic is perfectly appropriate, and your treatment of it was honest and searching in great ways.

    I think my distress comes from reading the aggregate of 40 comments before me–representing among them amazing women who seem to do (collectively) everthing I seem unable to do singly. And as often happens when comparing our weakness, we see only others’ strengths. I truly hope that when last-days-calamities happen, the strong non-outsourcers among you will take pity on me and help me learn the skills I still need at that point.

    And I think the angel-devil portrayal is perfectly appropriate, since we all have it…so long as the angel represents God’s true expectations and not cultural guilt.

    I also appreciate the distinction you make in your reply that the Indonesians (or Pakastanis or whoever) ARE spending 66 hours (+ or -) on the quilt I buy cheap. It’s perfectly true that making more of our own could help us reach out to them with much greater compassion.

    Perhaps this is where last-days-calamities will be our greatest blessing in preparing us to be a Zion “of one heart and one mind.” We’ll be forced to face the sacrifices already made by the very poor worldwide, and much more ready to part with our excess.

    Thanks Leslie.

52. anonymous (me again)
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

    Thank you for your sympathy, but brave and virtuous no. I’m afraid that anonymous comments are too often signs of cowardice. I justify that in this case to protect my husband’s pride about finances, but it hides my own pride too.

53. jendoop
    April 7th, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

    Anon – I agree with what has been said in response to your post. This life is a time to learn and educate ourselves. If you are truly desiring to follow the prophets’ counsel, prayerfully consider which item of provident living you could attempt.

    Fabric by the yard is expensive! I shop second hand stores like you, I get hand me downs from neighbors and I mend older children’s clothing for younger siblings. Soaking in good old Oxy Clean can get out a diaper blow out stain better than anything I know. Just because it’s stained doesn’t mean it’s worthless, use it for a camping quilt. What is it they say? Wear it out, use it up or do without? Something like that anyway

    As for gardening- it is something that is built up each season. If you never begin you’ll never have anything. Seeds cost cents and water falls from the sky. I’ve borrowed wheat grinders from more wealthy ward members in every community we’ve lived in, I still don’t own one. Canning isn’t economical, but I think it is good to know how and tastes yummy if you can afford it. The garden sure lowers costs during the summer even if you don’t can. We live thousands of miles from family. It doesn’t have to be chickens (which bring rats) or quilt stands (you can use a small hoop that costs $10). I exercise several times a week, my kids watch TV and they have even been known to eat Ramen and love it (throw in some home grown peas and carrots).

    It is about trying, just trying. You never know, you might just find a new hobby you really love and improve your family’s life following the prophet.

54. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

    I am glad we’re good.

    No sense in getting too hard on ourselves. God knows each of our situations, our baggage, our abilites, our circumstances- he is the only one we have to answer to. All he asks is we try harder each day.

    I appreciate various perspectives which brings richness to our discussions. It is often easy to be culturally (our life perspective) myopic and it’s always healthy to try and look through various lenses.

    I think the principles at the heart of the discussion have introspective implications for us all– Ill be the first in line!

    Knowing many people around the world who only one one or two pair of clothes, no cars, little access to education/ healthcare has certianly made me question our societies status quo. I hope our goal will be to be richness in spirit!

55. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 3:08 pm

    wow hula hoops- I never knew-
    I love 2nd hand!
    I would like a point for Rit dying my bedskirtrecently!

    you are right we can all find small ways to increase our skills of self reliance.

56. Lindsay
    April 7th, 2009 @ 4:29 pm

    My great grandmother had to raise 9 children on her own and had chickens that she had to kill, pluck and cook. She refused to eat chicken. Pretty certain great-grandma would take advantage of all the conveniences we have today, and I think she would absolutely love a stand mixer.

    That being said, I’ve been wondering how the Brady family justified having a housekeeper when there were six kids and a SAHM who could definitely have kept up the house and yard.

57. m&m
    April 7th, 2009 @ 5:44 pm

    Knowing many people around the world who only one one or two pair of clothes, no cars, little access to education/ healthcare has certianly made me question our societies status quo.

    OK, so here’s a question — isn’t the idea to bring their standard of living and opportunity up, not necessarily bring ours down? I don’t hear our leaders telling us to sell our homes, cars, computers, etc. in order to somehow live better. We ARE asked, however, to give generously of time and means to help lift others out of their poverty (spiritual and temporal) and to keep ourselves unspotted from the world.

    My husband recently heard a thought that has stuck with me. The early saints hardly had money, but that was what the Lord asked of them, esp with temple work. Now, we don’t have to donate our money, but we are asked to sacrifice our time — much of which is as filled with stuff as our basements may be.

    I absolutely agree with the principle of work, but I’m not sure we have to return to pioneer days and ways to be able to do it. I think in some ways, our work is different. They had to leave hearth and home to share the gospel; we can share it with a click of a button. They had to work with their hands and with the land to survive; we can purchase goods and store them for our survival (although of course knowing how to garden etc. is a good thing). They had little free time for anything; we have so much time freed up by the conveniences of life that we sometimes fill our time with endeavors that don’t bear fruit. Our lives can be as filled with stuff as our basements.

    The law of the harvest isn’t just about temporal sustenance, imo, it’s about the Lord’s work in general. It seems like so much of the counsel is about how we spend our time.

    Again, it’s not that I don’t think there is great value in domestic skills, because I DO. I feel the Spirit strongly when I cook and work and teach my kids to do these things. I hear MUCH still about the importance of nurturing and caring for our families in this way. I want my children to have basic, important skills. And I want them to FEEL my love as I serve them in these ways. But I still think I can do laundry of my second-hand or cheaply-purchased clothes in my awesome clothes washer (had to get a new one a few years ago), imo, with an eye single to the glory of God. I still have to work to keep my home running — it’s just a different kind of work. The law of the harvest is about much more than just temporal existence.

    And I have the work of prioritizing and choosing between myriad options and really learning to consecrate my time in ways, imo, that our forebears could never have dreamed possible. In many ways, they had no choice over their time, because so much of it was spent just surviving. Where more is given, more is required.

58. m&m
    April 7th, 2009 @ 5:53 pm

    BTW, Leslie, I think this is a really worthwhile topic to discuss. I think it’s all too easy to let the conveniences of life distract us from what is most important. But they CAN, if we let them, become blessings that can facilitate good if we let them. I would be interested in discussing more of that. What ARE we doing with our time and resources since we dont HAVE to work to survive?

59. m&m
    April 7th, 2009 @ 6:01 pm

    What I mean is that many of us don’t have to grow our own food or make our own clothes out of necessity…of course we still need to work to survive, it’s just often a different kind of work.

60. QueenScarlett
    April 7th, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

    I really like what you had to say. Instead of bemoaning all the blessings we have… we should embrace them and do good with our advantages.

    I feel that often in our own country – so many prefer to belittle, bemoan and complain at how much we have… when I think we ought to be darn grateful and then give where we can…serve where we can – not have a pity party because we have so much.

    In our generation we have the benefits of spreading the gospel electronically and in person… (how cool was it that #ldsconf was the top tweet during conf?!) – we also have more time freed up by progress (intelligence) to do more good…serve in the temple, hold FHE…etc…

    Like your thoughts… I totally agree.

61. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 6:42 pm

    isn’t the idea to bring their standard of living and opportunity up, not necessarily bring ours down?

    My pioint is not that we should give up what we have, that is not what we are asked to do. Yes our goal is to raise the standard of living. My point being that when you see people who get by with say 10 items of clothing it makes you realize you don’t really need 200. needs and wants take on new perspective, We could do a lot more to lift other out of poverty- through perpetual education, microfinance loans, hum aid etc. If we decided to forgo some frivolities (like one more shirt one more night of take out or a trip to the movies) and instead were more generous with our substance and offerings. WE are asked to be generous with our offerings and yet many wards even struggle to get a majority of members to pay a fast offering? sO while we believe it- is the principle really being embraced or do we believe we are entitled to so much that that comes first?

    I guess I am sometimes sickened by our affluence and abundance when others have so little. It is very hard to reconcile many of the things I have seen around the world and come back to normal american life without feeling slightly outraged buy one our extreme consumption, our somewhat laziness, but mostly the extreme ignorance and apathy of most people to the state in which most of the world lives? What if we were to trade places. How would we feel to see such excess yet watch our children die of malnourishment or curable disease? It’s tough stuff out there. I think we should embrace more thrift and work. I also worry that our ease of life makes us proud- it places us above others who live in want or lack education, etc.

    Yes- your husbands point is true- there is a strong principle that the greatest scarcity is what is the greatest sacrifice- i.e. a child from a very poor family might me so excited to have a new coat whereas a child from a super busy family might take more worth from his dad being at his baseball game

    I am all for beauty (hey I am an artist) but I think aethtics is often becoming a modern God and one that promotes excess (that doesn’t look enough this season or pretty enough – throw it a way). Did you ever learn about the retrenchment society when Brigham Young called ont he young women to put away the foolishness of outdoing each other with fashion and become more thrifty, and industrious etc?

    yes our work is different so is the consecration of our time. I think though that work in the home is getting a bad name- there is not repsct for it in our modern world- this to me is the danger of completely outsourcing?

    And for the record I am all for labor saving devices- microwaves, mixers and the lot- I use all of mine religiously- where I see the outsourcing is more in removing outselves or the desire to remove ourselves from the menial chores of daily living- we whine about them, detest them, yet I think if we look deeper we will find them laden with meaning, blessing and purpose.

62. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

    See I don’t see anyone complaining they have too much- do you really see that- All I see everyone thinking they don’t have enough?

    I think we need to recognize that most of us have excess (the first step), far more than we need, and need to be wiser stewards with our time and money (the second step) embrace conservation and thrift and use our substance to promote real powerful change and charity for our fellow men.

63. Leslie
    April 7th, 2009 @ 6:53 pm

    what did Carol do all day? Thats right she gave puzzled looks and doled out cheesy advice during the crazy mishaps of the kids while alice poured glasses of milk and fed them cookies…

64. Gabrielle
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:00 pm

    I think about this issue a lot. I used to be the type who bemoaned how hard/boring/thankless domestic work was. I hated cleaning my house! Then I became disabled, and now I *can’t* do these things. How I wish I could turn back time! It’s awful to feel so useless (I know I’m not, but I was raised in a home where we all did work, and NEVER hired anything out, and so those instincts run deep).
    I struggle because I think it is vitally important to teach my children how to work, how to value work, to take pride in what they do, and most of all, how to appreciate and be grateful for their immense blessings. The best way to do this, is to just have them do it. Do the work. Make them buy their own things. Let them see the kind of effort and labor that really goes into our modern day luxuries. But it is hard when I can’t model these things for them. I do my best, insisting that they pick up after themselves, and clean up messes they make in between cleaning services. I intend to have them do more and more of the domestic work as they grow up, and hopefully in a few years we won’t need a cleaning service at all.
    I did make a point to hire a cleaning team that were not illegal immigrants, even though they are a LOT more expensive. (Although I had very mixed feelings about this, since I know the cheaper services are manned by people who may well need the work more). It is very important to me for my children to see that housework *is* legitimate work, and not for “other people,” different from them.
    Your comment about outsourcing our children strikes a deep chord with me. I pulled my kids out of public school this year in favor of homeschooling, and it has been deeply rewarding, although SO much work! I think helping them develop strong family relationships and a strong family identity will help them immeasurably as they grow. We don’t watch TV, and movies are only for weekends. I probably overcompensate in these areas because I can’t do as much in the other areas of domestic life that ought to be my responsibility.

65. Sue
    April 7th, 2009 @ 8:19 pm

    I have never been very domestic as a homemaker, though I think I have been good at creating the right environment in my home and doing the mothering itself. I do feel that my family lost out on some sweet experiences because of my lack of interest in sewing, cooking, etc. It is a kind of nurturing that I think would have benefitted my husband and children.

    I also had a housecleaner once we could afford it, but I always had chores for myself and my children, so I don’t think we suffered to much from outsourcing just the deep cleaning. (It’s not like we never did that ourselves in between cleaning visits.)

    I believe it was a beautiful time when people lived off the land and lived by the work of their hands. I have a feeling it was psychologically better for people when such work was essential to their survival. This kind of labor is very grounding, whereas the kind of life we live today can leave a person very much at loose ends….or overworking in high-pressure desk jobs with modern stresses that are not a very good trade-off for hard physical labor.

    But it is what it is, and ours is just to organize our time well and live as balanced a life as possible. I do think it’s important, however, not to lose sight of the “old ways,” just in case we need them again!

66. jendoop
    April 7th, 2009 @ 9:30 pm

    I think your last line is what Elder Uchtdorf was talking about (in part) in his creativity talk. These daily tasks are creation- creating order, creating cleanliness, creating a family.

67. Sue
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:17 pm

    I just have to give you an amen on one of your comments – I have a garden but I never can. I’d rather buy canned food and put it in the basement for later – it’s just cheaper – in terms of materials and time. The fresh vegetables and fruit? We EAT them. While they are fresh. Or give them away. I figure there’s no sense sentencing perfectly good fresh food to life in a jar.

68. m&m
    April 7th, 2009 @ 11:52 pm

    I agree, Leslie. Sorry if it came across like I don’t.

    I do wonder what this all looks like in practice, though, ya know?

    And I will tell you one reason why I hold onto our lots of clothes that we have mostly gotten second-hand. Because for me, I feel more prepared if I have clothes I can throw away if need be. If there was a situation where I couldn’t use water, I wouldn’t be concerned about throwing stuff away that got soiled.

    Maybe that is extreme in its own right, but I share that just to illustrate that for me it’s not always as simple as it seems. And sometimes I can get really stressed out about whether I am doing enough, and so I just try to do what I can in my own cushy world to cut back, to donate and share and such in various ways, and to hope that somehow, somewhere, my meager efforts are accepted.

    I also really think there is value in what you are saying about not whining about the work, or thinking that it is all irrelevant to us now. The work has spiritual value at many levels, to be sure.

69. Zina
    April 8th, 2009 @ 12:49 am

    I had clicked away (after reading the interesting post and all the interesting comments) but I came back because I remembered that I’d meant to tell Leslie that Jen meant (I’m 99.99% certain) that you could use a large embroidery hoop for quilting (not a hula hoop. Although that would be interesting to watch.)

70. Leslie
    April 8th, 2009 @ 6:32 am

    I have a real strong testimony of this concept- the strength and competency that comes from the work of our own hands

71. Leslie
    April 8th, 2009 @ 6:35 am

    I think that is the crux of the issue-what should thrift, industry, and work look like in our modern age- what is consumptive, what is laziness labelled as “normal”. I don’t think it is easily answered and requires our constant weighing

72. Sue
    April 8th, 2009 @ 7:20 am

    heehee

73. Leslie
    April 8th, 2009 @ 7:49 am

    LOL- yes thats what I get for fast reading and being up 2 nights with my baby- I was thinking, gosh that’s novel, knwoing the internet these days epople can come up with crazy wacky stuff- so I was guessing someone had figured out how to devise a giant hoop out of a hula hoop and some wire or pipe clamps or something-

    I do embroider with a reg size hoop- Sadly I can’t also use it ot hula hoop (at least not since having kids)

74. Tamlynn
    April 9th, 2009 @ 1:40 am

    Sorry I don’t have time to read all these replys right now, I can tell its a good discussion. To your questions, Les, the answer to most of them is YES. I am reading a WWI story right now where the women gather each weekend to knit socks for the soldiers. How many people do you know who can knit socks? We have lost the ability as a society to provide basic essentials like socks for ourselves. Now, I do a lot in the self-suffiency thing. I can sew, cook from scratch, home-can, grow a garden, good grief I even have chickens. But these are things that I enjoy. Cleaning my bathroom is a different story. I struggle with the feeling that I am too good to clean my bathroom. Why shouldn’t I have the priviledge of hiring someone else to do the work that I hate? I am a busy woman and should not have to waste my time on menial tasks. Then I feel ashamed because I should feel grateful that I even have a pretty bathroom with nice running water. And what example would I be setting for my kids? That if you don’t like a task you shouldn’t have to do it? These are the topics my shoulder devil and angel discuss when the grout starts to turn black.

75. Domestic Outsourcing « Keeping My Wits About Me
    April 9th, 2009 @ 3:54 pm

    [...] April 9, 2009, 9:46 pm Filed under: Uncategorized I just read this article and comments on Blog Segullah (a literary blog for LDS women). I started to post a comment and decided to post my response here [...]

76. Tract
    April 14th, 2009 @ 7:22 am

    I too have struggled at times with the thought of letting others do what I/we can do for ourselves. I have also learned many skills, some of which I use only occasionally and some frequently. I do feel that we need to spend as much time as possible teaching our children the value of work and gaining skills that will benefit them in the future. We do appreciate more what we take the time to do and realize how much effort someone else put into something so that we can enjoy it. As for being proficient in many areas, we simply don’t have the time. If we think about the law of consecration, we will share are skills so that all may benefit. Is this not the Lord’s way. All are working, giving and using the skills that they have improved upon and are expert in. We help each other and all are valued, appreciated and giving so that all may benefit. It is a good thing to let others feel of use and to make their way in the world doing things that we haven’t got the skills for and we in turn use our skills for the same reasons. We still need to be as prepared as possible and the more we learn how to do the more self-reliant we can be.

77. Johnna
    April 14th, 2009 @ 2:14 pm

    I struggle. For some reason, it’s easy to pay for outsourcing, like convenience food that was put together in a factory somewhere else, but really hard for me to hire anyone to help with the cleaning or driving the kids around. With my husband’s travel schedule and a handful of kids, I just get spread a little thin.

    Yet I read “A Midwife’s Tale: The Life of Martha Ballard, Based on Her Diary, ” and I get an idea that doing everything alone, and in relative isolation to boot, is not really how it was done historically either. Except perhaps by Nebraska homesteaders.

78. Amazing Chick
    April 14th, 2009 @ 4:32 pm

    “Are we robbing ourselves and our children of fulfillment?”

    Really? seriously lady?

79. Leslie
    April 14th, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

    Johnna- Yes, historically the kinship model and intergenerational work played into domestic life alot more. Our more transient nuclear family units have contributed to these shifts. We do all need to outsource. It’s not possible to balance all the additions of our modern lives without it.

    Amazing Chick- Yes, I am serious and I stand by my words 100%.

80. Michaela S
    April 14th, 2009 @ 5:13 pm

    We may not need to sew clothes, but it is nice to know how to sew when you have to modify something to be more modest.
    It’s nice to know how to mend, because then you can make things last longer.

    We have to have some household work for the self-esteem boost of being powerful enough to do it. We have to have some work to do to teach our kids how to work and work with them.

81. Tiffany W.
    April 15th, 2009 @ 11:12 am

    I’m completely late to the party, but I really wanted to think about this before I jumped into the conversation.
    Part of me longs to outsource my domestic issues. I would love to have a housecleaner or someone to come and help me organize. I just spent the better of two months pretty much confined to my bed because of illness. I watched my house fall apart as my husband worked double time taking care of me and the kids. Additional help would have been greatly appreciated.
    I also think that the idea of having outside help can be useful in situations where a person has other responsibilities which need to be attended to or has health issues and needs help. My mother, has rheumatoid arthritis. She has two women come and deep clean her home once a week. My mom maintains the house, but there are some things she simply cannot do. This was hard for her to accept help, because she has been an outstanding homemaker, keeping our home comfortable and yet very clean. In my ward, we have many immigrants who could use the work and it would be a blessing to them.

    BUT, on the other hand, there is great value in knowing how to manage and run one’s household. It requires skill, discipline and intelligence to do all the work that is required to keep a clean home and raise a family. Sometimes I wonder if people are too lazy or careless to make the effort to learn how to run a household effectively. It’s easy to turn difficult over to others, relying on their expertise to get the job done. But it can be so rewarding to learn how to do a difficult job well and become skilled at it. At this point in my life, I feel okay with how I run my household. I need to teach my children more, but we’re working on it. However, I am terrible at budgeting and managing money. This is something is hard for me. But we need to do it. I would love to outsource it to someone else, but if I do, I will never get control over our finances. That’s something I want more than I dread the work. So I’m learning. It’s hard, but each month when I present my work to my husband and we are still in the black, it feels good.
    Years ago, I listened to a devotional on BYU’s broadcasting site from a professor who talked about creating homes in terms of learning homemaking skills. She compared this homemaking to building defenses around our families. It was a wonderful talk and really changed the way I looked at housework. Just as President Uchdorft’s talk about creating added another dimension of understanding for me. I wish I could find the talk on the website, I just spent a lot of time looking.

82. jendoop
    April 15th, 2009 @ 11:27 am

    It has been over a week, but yes- I meant quilting on a large embroidery hoop, not a hula hoop

    After reading through follow-up comments I have to add that when we make decisions about household duties we should really delve deep into what we are sacrificing and why we are sacrificing it.

    We sometimes justify turning over our responsibilities so we can have more time with our kids- more time to do what? To tell them that the world revolves around them? More time to NOT teach them the value of work? More time to show them, by our example, that cleaning is below our station in life, more befitting others who are “needy”?

    On the other side there is this idea that if it is hard work then it is of value. You can work really hard to make a mud pie, but that doesn’t mean I want to eat it for dinner. What we have recently been taught about church work also applies to our work at home – magnifying our calling doesn’t mean doing more, it means doing more with less. Rolling up our sleeves and scrubbing the floor by hand doesn’t make sense if we have a mop that does the trick in 1/3 the time.

    We should reason it out in our minds, but not to the point of rationalizing idolatry and/or laziness. This life demands that we prioritize, those things that are truly most important to us will rise to the surface.

83. Tiffany W.
    April 23rd, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

    Whoohoo! I remembered the BYU professor’s name I referenced in my previous comment. Her name is Shirley Klein. Here is a link to a BYU devotional she gave a few years ago. This talk literally changed the way I look and approach housework.
    http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=8958

    I promise you, it is well worth your time to read it.

84. Leslie
    April 23rd, 2009 @ 2:03 pm

    tiffany thanks for the link- shirley klein is great- I knew her in grad school. I had a really great class taught by kathleen bahr that looked at work and family, (especially across the last century and our paradigm shifts)They really changed how I view work and were the inspiration for this post

85. jendoop
    April 23rd, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

    Tiffany W. – Thank you for the link, that was great!

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