Comments on: Funny Pioneer Stories http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/ Mormon women blogging about the peculiar and the treasured Wed, 23 May 2012 15:39:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Heathermommy http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91932 Heathermommy Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:12:47 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91932 I had an institute teacher who scoffed at the perpetuated idea that there will be more women in the celestial kingdom. More boy babies die and more men die in wars, etc... He also argued that polygamy would not be practiced in the Celetial Kingdom. He said the important thing was the sealing ordinace, not necessarily who you were sealed to. He said it would all be worked out there. Some women are even sealed to more than one man so things will probably not always align with who you were sealed to here. Also it is all based on worthiness, excetera... In the end I think it is pointless to speculate too much because we just don't know for sure. My hope is that it will never be recquired of me. To me it does not make sense to be in a polygamous relationship in the celestial kingdom, I mean it is supposed to be heaven, right? That is where I should be rewarded for enduring all my trials not given new ones! I had an institute teacher who scoffed at the perpetuated idea that there will be more women in the celestial kingdom. More boy babies die and more men die in wars, etc… He also argued that polygamy would not be practiced in the Celetial Kingdom. He said the important thing was the sealing ordinace, not necessarily who you were sealed to. He said it would all be worked out there. Some women are even sealed to more than one man so things will probably not always align with who you were sealed to here. Also it is all based on worthiness, excetera…

In the end I think it is pointless to speculate too much because we just don’t know for sure. My hope is that it will never be recquired of me. To me it does not make sense to be in a polygamous relationship in the celestial kingdom, I mean it is supposed to be heaven, right? That is where I should be rewarded for enduring all my trials not given new ones!

]]> By: eljee http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91869 eljee Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:01:33 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91869 Of course the Lord remembers women going through any sort of trials, and of course there are great lessons to be learned. I'm not commenting on whether polygamy in any age was right or wrong or on how it should or shouldn't work. I just think it brings complex issues into the family relationships. Are those issues "wrong"? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not passing judgment on the institution of polygamy itself, I just think that for me it would be a trial. It would exacerbate trials I already had. Regardless of the reasons OT people lived polygamy vs. the reasons Utah pioneers lived it, there were complexities that they dealt with. Any kind of inequality or unfairness in the family would be harder to handle--whether it's one wife being able to have children when the other can't, or one wife getting along better with the husband than the other wife. With my infertility, at least my husband and I were in it together. If I had no children, he didn't either. Of course the Lord remembers women going through any sort of trials, and of course there are great lessons to be learned. I’m not commenting on whether polygamy in any age was right or wrong or on how it should or shouldn’t work. I just think it brings complex issues into the family relationships. Are those issues “wrong”? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not passing judgment on the institution of polygamy itself, I just think that for me it would be a trial. It would exacerbate trials I already had. Regardless of the reasons OT people lived polygamy vs. the reasons Utah pioneers lived it, there were complexities that they dealt with. Any kind of inequality or unfairness in the family would be harder to handle–whether it’s one wife being able to have children when the other can’t, or one wife getting along better with the husband than the other wife. With my infertility, at least my husband and I were in it together. If I had no children, he didn’t either.

]]> By: Anon http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91862 Anon Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:59:59 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91862 Most of the 'polygamists' in the Old Testament were not doing it to follow God. They were doing it because it gave status and power. I don't think that is a good reference for us on how polygamy should/does work. I also think that we need to remember the lessons learned from polygamy in the OT. In Genesis ch 30, it says that "God remembered Rachel". Maybe her life wasn't easy or it wasn't turning out how she wanted but the Lord remembered her. What a testimony to us to perservere through our trials and to remember that the Lord loves us! And I believe we do know that polygamy will be in the Celestial Kindgom (per Justine's comment). Some were sealed in the temple. They will be sealed in the hereafter if they were faithful in this life. The Lord keeps His promises to his righteous children. I believe we are also told that there will be more women than men in the celestial kingdom. So many faithful women in this era will die without finding a righteous companion. I have to believe that they will have a chance to find a companion and receive all the blessings our Heavenly Father has for them. And I agree with Zina. I don't think we should pass such strong judgment on something we've never seen or participated in first hand. Most of the ‘polygamists’ in the Old Testament were not doing it to follow God. They were doing it because it gave status and power. I don’t think that is a good reference for us on how polygamy should/does work. I also think that we need to remember the lessons learned from polygamy in the OT. In Genesis ch 30, it says that “God remembered Rachel”. Maybe her life wasn’t easy or it wasn’t turning out how she wanted but the Lord remembered her. What a testimony to us to perservere through our trials and to remember that the Lord loves us!

And I believe we do know that polygamy will be in the Celestial Kindgom (per Justine’s comment). Some were sealed in the temple. They will be sealed in the hereafter if they were faithful in this life. The Lord keeps His promises to his righteous children.

I believe we are also told that there will be more women than men in the celestial kingdom. So many faithful women in this era will die without finding a righteous companion. I have to believe that they will have a chance to find a companion and receive all the blessings our Heavenly Father has for them.

And I agree with Zina. I don’t think we should pass such strong judgment on something we’ve never seen or participated in first hand.

]]> By: eljee http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91840 eljee Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:11:08 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91840 OH, and as for me, I think being a plural wife would be a horribly devastating experience. I'm infertile, and the idea of my dh having children with another wife and me having to be right there the whole time and live with it all up front is completely intolerable. I don't know how those Old Testament women did it, but from reading the OT, we can see that with all the challenges inherent in polygamy anyway, infertility made it almost unbearable. OH, and as for me, I think being a plural wife would be a horribly devastating experience. I’m infertile, and the idea of my dh having children with another wife and me having to be right there the whole time and live with it all up front is completely intolerable. I don’t know how those Old Testament women did it, but from reading the OT, we can see that with all the challenges inherent in polygamy anyway, infertility made it almost unbearable.

]]> By: eljee http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91839 eljee Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:07:50 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91839 My great great grandmother, Lorena Eugenia Washburn Larsen, tells about growing up in Manti, Utah and being chased by what are basically creepy old men. Those aren't the words she uses, but she does talk about how these men that were much, much older than her sought after her as a wife, and how she had no interest in them whatsoever and felt it was inappropriate for them to be seeking young wives. She did end up marrying a younger man as his second wife. I sense that it was a difficult choice to go into marriage as anything other than the first wife, and that the primary reason she did was because she believed it was a higher law. The two wives held down the farm and provided emotional support to one another while their husband was away for several years serving a mission in Europe. However, I think the most interesting part of her story is that she speaks openly about how she felt and what she thought when the Manifesto was issued. As much as I can't imagine the idea of every living in polygamy and pray I never have to, it is heart-wrenching to read of her devastation upon being told that her family was no longer valid. Since she was the second wife, she was basically severed. She felt very abandoned and betrayed by her leaders and by God, I think. However, her feelings lasted only a little while, and she also talks about feeling great peace from the Holy Ghost and the assurance that everything would turn out OK. Her husband did continue to support her to an extent, but later on pretty much left her on her own with her children. They did live in a married state for awhile, because she had several more children with him. She talks of receiving counsel from a local church leader on this, okaying it. I don't think there would be any easy answers in such a situation. Her autobiography is in the family history section at the BYU library (at least it was 10 years ago when I was there), and it is a fascinating read--not just because she's my direct ancestor, but because a Pioneer woman is speaking so honestly about life living polygamy. My great great grandmother, Lorena Eugenia Washburn Larsen, tells about growing up in Manti, Utah and being chased by what are basically creepy old men. Those aren’t the words she uses, but she does talk about how these men that were much, much older than her sought after her as a wife, and how she had no interest in them whatsoever and felt it was inappropriate for them to be seeking young wives. She did end up marrying a younger man as his second wife. I sense that it was a difficult choice to go into marriage as anything other than the first wife, and that the primary reason she did was because she believed it was a higher law. The two wives held down the farm and provided emotional support to one another while their husband was away for several years serving a mission in Europe.

However, I think the most interesting part of her story is that she speaks openly about how she felt and what she thought when the Manifesto was issued. As much as I can’t imagine the idea of every living in polygamy and pray I never have to, it is heart-wrenching to read of her devastation upon being told that her family was no longer valid. Since she was the second wife, she was basically severed. She felt very abandoned and betrayed by her leaders and by God, I think. However, her feelings lasted only a little while, and she also talks about feeling great peace from the Holy Ghost and the assurance that everything would turn out OK.

Her husband did continue to support her to an extent, but later on pretty much left her on her own with her children. They did live in a married state for awhile, because she had several more children with him. She talks of receiving counsel from a local church leader on this, okaying it. I don’t think there would be any easy answers in such a situation.

Her autobiography is in the family history section at the BYU library (at least it was 10 years ago when I was there), and it is a fascinating read–not just because she’s my direct ancestor, but because a Pioneer woman is speaking so honestly about life living polygamy.

]]> By: Carol F. http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91789 Carol F. Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:12:42 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91789 I am a direct descendant of the Miles Park and Catherine Romney mentioned by Emily. Catherine Cottam was a beautiful, sought-after young woman of St. George who denied at least one offer of marriage from a single young guy in order to be available for polygamist Miles Park Romney. Catherine desired to be in a polygamous relationship because of what she believed was the higher road. Times were different! I am a direct descendant of the Miles Park and Catherine Romney mentioned by Emily. Catherine Cottam was a beautiful, sought-after young woman of St. George who denied at least one offer of marriage from a single young guy in order to be available for polygamist Miles Park Romney. Catherine desired to be in a polygamous relationship because of what she believed was the higher road. Times were different!

]]> By: Justine http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91599 Justine Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:26:12 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91599 I sometimes wonder if polygamy will be practiced in the celestial kingdom precisely because it was practiced here. So many women and children would be ripped apart from their parents and spouses if the Lord required them to maintain one man/one woman. Remember, of course, that polygamy has been practiced occasionally throughout all of history. This is, however, total speculation. That pet theory of mine, however, would make an allowance for polygamy to continue without requiring me myself to practice it! I sometimes wonder if polygamy will be practiced in the celestial kingdom precisely because it was practiced here. So many women and children would be ripped apart from their parents and spouses if the Lord required them to maintain one man/one woman. Remember, of course, that polygamy has been practiced occasionally throughout all of history. This is, however, total speculation.

That pet theory of mine, however, would make an allowance for polygamy to continue without requiring me myself to practice it!

]]> By: Heathermommy http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91589 Heathermommy Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:21:06 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91589 I don't think polygamy is the higher law. I think obeying God no matter how hard is the higher law. To my understanding polygamy was just the means to a desired end: raising up a righteous people, not that there was anything particularly necessary about being in a polygamous marriage. I mean no respect to our ancestors, obviously they had a great faith. I am sure some people found some positives from a polygamous marriage but the truth is it was a trial of their faith. But the real issue at hand for me is that a polygamous marriage could never be for me what marriage is supposed to be. How can a man make his wife his #1 priority if he has several wives. The shoe story exemplifies this. No matter how hard people tried to be fair there was a hierarchy of wives. I don't see how this is uplifting to women at all. I don’t think polygamy is the higher law. I think obeying God no matter how hard is the higher law. To my understanding polygamy was just the means to a desired end: raising up a righteous people, not that there was anything particularly necessary about being in a polygamous marriage. I mean no respect to our ancestors, obviously they had a great faith. I am sure some people found some positives from a polygamous marriage but the truth is it was a trial of their faith.

But the real issue at hand for me is that a polygamous marriage could never be for me what marriage is supposed to be. How can a man make his wife his #1 priority if he has several wives. The shoe story exemplifies this. No matter how hard people tried to be fair there was a hierarchy of wives. I don’t see how this is uplifting to women at all.

]]> By: Emily M. http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91486 Emily M. Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:48:23 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91486 Sar, we're fourth-wifers on the Cook line. My husband's great-great-grandma was forever bitter because she always got the last of the shoes. He'd bring a barrel of shoes for his wives and kids, and the first wife and kids got first pick, and so on down, until poor Great-Great-Grandma Cook. She didn't have a lot of love for polygamy. But Zina, I think your point is an important one to consider as we discuss polygamy: last year I read the letters of Catherine Romney, plural wife of Miles Romney, and she did see it as a higher law, and a necessary good. She made great sacrifices because of polygamy, and was happy to do so. That may be hard to fathom, but it's not a bad thing to celebrate these pioneer women for the sacrifices they made to live the laws they'd been given, rather than focus on ... I don't know, what's the word? pitying them for having to live polygamy in the first place. Sar, we’re fourth-wifers on the Cook line. My husband’s great-great-grandma was forever bitter because she always got the last of the shoes. He’d bring a barrel of shoes for his wives and kids, and the first wife and kids got first pick, and so on down, until poor Great-Great-Grandma Cook.

She didn’t have a lot of love for polygamy.

But Zina, I think your point is an important one to consider as we discuss polygamy: last year I read the letters of Catherine Romney, plural wife of Miles Romney, and she did see it as a higher law, and a necessary good. She made great sacrifices because of polygamy, and was happy to do so. That may be hard to fathom, but it’s not a bad thing to celebrate these pioneer women for the sacrifices they made to live the laws they’d been given, rather than focus on … I don’t know, what’s the word? pitying them for having to live polygamy in the first place.

]]> By: s'mee http://segullah.org/daily-special/funny-pioneer-stories/#comment-91362 s'mee Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:42:14 +0000 http://segullah.org/?p=681#comment-91362 Hey! I'm already the barking wife! Melonie C. Howdy cuzin'! Yeah, we joke around here a lot about that ancestor. Our Bishop is a direct descendant of George Q. (He's actually George Q 3rd) and Thor is the descendant of the black sheep of the family, David H.! Oh well. Hey! I’m already the barking wife!

Melonie C. Howdy cuzin’! Yeah, we joke around here a lot about that ancestor. Our Bishop is a direct descendant of George Q. (He’s actually George Q 3rd) and Thor is the descendant of the black sheep of the family, David H.! Oh well.

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