As for casual dating . . .today’s hangout culture gives guys such easy access to girls. I think paying for a date is one of the ways in which a guy invests himself and shows that he is truly interested. That being said, however, the best dates are often the ones in which the cost is low but creativity is high.

The old dating paradigm is still around because women, overall, still make less money than men. (75 cents on the dollar, they say!) So when we let men pick up the check, we are acknowledging that reality. (Dare I say reinforcing that reality?) This is why it can feel a little bit icky to let the man pay, but also a little bit fair.

In practice, I’ve found that when I first start going on dates with someone, I offer to pay sometimes, and accept the gift other times. Overall, I accept more than I end up paying (Shall we say $1 for every 75 cents that I contribute?) and for some weird reason this just feels “right.”

You may reconsider not taking his last name. I did. And I don’t regret it for a minute. (It doesn’t change who I am as a person, or how successful I am, or others’ perceptions of me–I don’t think. It simply makes things easier when a last name is shared.)

I think I should clarify my thoughts on this as well. I do not for a second believe that a woman should passively sit back and expect that she will have guaranteed support through her husband for life. I also don’t want to be misunderstood as somehow saying that our prophets teach that. In fact, I hear them reminding us that life has its twists and turns and that we as women need to be prepared through education and/or training to be able to provide if need be.

But that doesn’t, in my mind, take away from the fact that 1) providing is still primarily a man’s role, and 2) it is a blessing for a woman to have a choice whether or not to work because her income is not a necessity for the family’s financial survival.

That doesn’t mean a woman never should or could or will work even if the money isn’t a necessity, either.

But my thought is that given the choice, a woman in dating mode looking for a spouse ought to consider whether her potential mate cares about being a good provider. (Again, that is not the same as naively expecting to never have to work, or not prayerfully and wisely preparing for the future herself, or never working herself…)

…Or never paying for a date.

And that came across stronger than I want it to. I do disagree with the idea, though, that a woman HAS to help pay in order to not be considered “selfish.”

That said, I would expect in any relationship where there is interest both ways that both might take some initiative along the way to doing things together.

But let me make sure that it’s clear that I have NEVER said that a woman paying is somehow against prophetic counsel.

Naismith, I am sorry you read my comment in that way. That wasn’t what I was trying to say, though.

I am sharing my own thoughts on what I have heard. Prophets haven’t come right out and said, ‘men should pay” (and I never said they did). And if you read all of my comments, you will see that I’m not drawing a line that definitively, either. They have talked about men taking the initiative in dating and courtship, and I have mulled here on how I could see how things like paying for dates (generally speaking) could tie into that.

I also don’t think that such an approach means that women are passive moochers. But if you disagree, then fine.

But please, please don’t make this a personal thing about you and your life and your comments. There is no need to be on the defensive here. There is no need to justify your life and your decisions to me or anyone else. You do and have done what feels right for you and that is enough for God. It surely is none of my business what you choose to do, and I did not intend to presume that it was.

Again, I’m sorry if my comments came across as calling you or anyone to repentance. Please read my comments not as prescriptive, but as reflective. I see discussions like this as opportunities to mull and discuss and chew on things that may not have clear, pat answers.

(For the record: from a cost-benefit perspective, it makes perfect sense for any single guy to pay for dinner with Frances. She’s a very cool person.)

I honestly don’t remember how things worked when I was dating my husband, which shows that I was concentrating on being with him rather than the money issue. And the times when I do remember money being the central focus of the date were some of the worst and most awkward memories, which might mean that if money is what you’re thinking about, you might have bigger problems

On the other hand, with a few very long term clients with whom I go to dinner several times a year, it seems more natural for me to reach for the check at least every third time, and even though there is occasionally a minor tug-of-war, clients do let me pay. It’s as if by that time we’re operating as friends rather than client/hireling — expecting the client to pay all the time at that stage would be too personal, more suggestive of dating than business.

Not that I have ever worked out that reasoning with any client, but these “rules” feel right and seem to work.