Comments on: Hello, brain? Are you up there?

By: Jennifer B.

Jennifer B. — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:10:24 +0000

What a question. How do you make it stick? Well, even though you haven’t had your friend’s experience, I think it helped you already. You went home and hugged your daughter. You spent time thinking about it and maybe you’ll even do something else differently because of your pondering. Plus, you may be able to look back and remember her words when you need it. I don’t know about you, but I rarely learn something once and them apply it consistently–I need lots of reminders and practice.

Thanks for sharing this. It was food for thought.

By: Carrie

Carrie — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:06:53 +0000

“So, if I never get divorced, or never lose a child, will I never learn the lesson? Will I die not understanding something Iâ€™m supposed to understand? Should I consider myself short-changed?”

I think my experiences will teach me compassion and understanding, even for experiences I didn’t actually live through.

By: Kathryn Soper

Kathryn Soper — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:50:25 +0000

Well said, Angie. I don’t mean to imply that dramatic events are the only things that teach us. Sometimes knowledge comes in a big (painful or joyful) burst, sometimes incrementally. Enduring the daily grind as gracefully as we can, being open to its teachings, consecrating it like Deborah said, is no small price to pay for understanding. But it still all boils down to personal experience, whatever our lot may be. Justine can learn the same lesson her friend did, but not by osmosis.

Justine’s comment that she’s not smart enough to learn from others made me pause. I really don’t think it has anything to do with your lack of intelligence or skill, Justine! It’s just the way of things.

By: Angie

Angie — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:52:42 +0000

I hear what you’re saying. I get impatient with myself alot, especially as a mother, because I want to more fully live my ideals. At the same time, I don’t think you should be too hard on yourself. I believe that not so deep down you love your children intensely; your life choices bear that out. It’s not a crime to get tired or frustrated and need a break once in a while. A life tragedy would certainly be a perspective check, but I don’t think that at the end of the day the kind of learning that comes as a result of your longsuffering efforts in the face of the mundane is any easier to attain or any less valid.

By: Kathryn Soper

Kathryn Soper — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 17:10:10 +0000

No, Justine, of course you don’t have to experience every terrible thing to learn what you’re here to learn. Each of us will be given all the opportunities we need to gain the knowledge exaltation requires. My point is simply that we can’t expect to reap the full benefits of the suffering of others. We learn most from our own experience.

The Savior suffered purposefully so that he could gain knowledge “according to the flesh”, knowledge he needed to fulfill his divine role. We are not supposed to sin deliberately, seek adversity of any kind, or envy the pain of others. But the truth still remains that we’re here to gain knowledge, and knowledge has a price. (Thus saith Eve.) We’ll all pay our own price.

This is my favorite NT parable:

41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred apence, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly aforgave them both. bTell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Jesus goes on to say, “To whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.”

To me that clearly answers Kelly’s question. But I daresay, if each of us were fully aware of our debts, and sought earnestly until we obtained a full remission of our sins, we would have no cause to worry whether we had enough love for the Savior.

By: Kelly

Kelly — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:29:08 +0000

This is an interesting question that you pose Justine. Can we learn these lessons without the actual experience? Unfortunately I don’t have the answer. I have thought of this before too. Can we more fully appreciate the Atonement without making huge transgressions? My husband was ex communicated from the church before I met him and was rebaptized after we were engaged and has since had his blessings restored and is in full membership of the church now. He is very quiet about his experience of the Atonement, I know it was a huge experience, but it’s a very private one for him. But I wonder, will I appreciate the Atonement as much as he does since I wasn’t excommunicated? Again, I don’t know.

I do know that the Savior experienced all that we have without committing the transgressions. I do know that we are striving to be like Him and that while we never achieve His level of perfection and/or compassion during this earthly life that we can pray to more fully appreciate the Atonement or more fully learn the lessons that Heavenly Father has in store for our lives.

By: Heather O.

Heather O. — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 06:18:23 +0000

I knew a woman who said “I want to learn the lessons the Lord has for me in the least painful way possible.” She was speaking from the position of a mother who lost her 9 year old child in a tragic car accident. She did not appreciate the pain, but boy did she acknowledge the lessons.

And Justine, I doubt you will die not understanding something the Lord wants you to learn. One thing is for sure–nobody gets through life unscathed. So, as one excellent bishop once said to me: strap in, open your heart, pray your guts out, and enjoy the ride.

By: Deborah

Deborah — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 04:41:57 +0000

Social psychologist Daniel Gilbert notes that we are notoriously bad at predicting our personal future: events we anticipate will make us happy (e.g. winning the proverbial lottery) will give us less joy than we think — while things that fill us with dread (e.g. losing a spouse) “will make us less unhappy, for less long, than we anticipate.” Our own faulty expectations — and fear of the “what if” can cause us a lot of anxiety. Our day-to-day happiness, studies say, is much more predicated on small events than on big ones.

Of course, that makes good spiritual sense, too. I’m not sure it matters so much what our sorrows and pains are — they’ll come — but whether we can find ways to consecrate the daily drudgery and chaos that is distinctly our own.

By: Justine

Justine — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 04:00:33 +0000

So, if I never get divorced, or never lose a child, will I never learn the lesson? Will I die not understanding something I’m supposed to understand? Should I consider myself short-changed?

I’ve just got to believe that I’m a smart enough woman to figure this out. I realize we don’t all have the same lessons to learn, but ultimately, we’ve all got to pretty much figure out roughly the same stuff. There’s got to be an alternative way. The scriptures mention it over and over. Be humble because you love the Lord, not because the Lord made you sufferingly poor. Be obedient because you love the Lord, not because I sent an army to destroy your village.

We all lead such distinctly different lives, but our purpose is generally the same. We’ve all got to figure it out. So how do I figure it out without expecting that all the bad things that could potentially happen will happen?

By: Kathryn Soper

Kathryn Soper — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 03:53:33 +0000

I’ve thought about this too. I have friends who have endured such heartache, and I want to learn what they’ve learned without going through what they’ve gone through. But I’m coming to believe that’s not possible. Your friend’s knowledge is the flip side of her pain. Can’t have one without the other.

Not that that means we shouldn’t try to appreciate our kids before something tragic happens, or whatever the lesson-through-pain may be. Of course we can, and should, constantly reach for a clear, wise frame of mind, and others can remind us of what this wisdom might look like. And yes, we can change our habits and our attitudes through practice.

But there’s still precious ground we can’t reach without paying the price of painful experience.