How do I judge thee? Let me count the ways…

Posted by Michelle L. | September 5, 2009 | 53 Comments

Bishop Brown stood in the common, legs crouched, hands held ready. As the disk sailed across the clear blue sky, he leapt and caught it with a loud, “Yes!”

His wife, Peggy, laughed as he held it above his head like a trophy, then readied herself for her own catch.

Soon, they settled into an easy rhythm, chatting and joking as each spinning toss unwound the cares of the day.

The phone was ringing as they walked back into their apartment, and on answering it, Bishop B recognized his neighbor’s voice, “Steve!” the neighbor barked, “How am I supposed to teach my kids to keep the Sabbath holy when you’re outside tossing a Frisbee around!”

Fighting the urge to laugh, Bishop B assuaged his neighbor then turned to his now-steaming wife. “Are people going to judge us all the time?” she asked.

He reached forward and tucked a loose curl behind her ear, “Sadly, yes.”

**************************

Sometimes, I think Mormons want the Law of Moses reinstated. We’d like to count our steps on the Sabbath and our neighbors’ steps and measure their hemlines–”Is she rolling her garments up?” “Do they have Diet Coke in the fridge?” “Did I see them walking into that R-rated movie?”

We love rules. Oh how we love rules. And we can find quotes from prophets and apostles reaching back 180 years to prove any directive or point of doctrine.

As Saints, we are constantly asked to evaluate ourselves–our habits, our attitudes, our actions– and I think that sometimes our introspection turns to INSPECTION of others. I’ve certainly been guilty of thinking, “Well, I may not be doing this perfectly, but at least I’m at church every Sunday unlike so-and-so.”

Our tendency to judge becomes even more dangerous when it’s extended to those outside our faith. My neighbors have every right to drink alcohol and to go to brunch on Sundays– and even if they were LDS, it wouldn’t be my place to judge their actions.

There are times when we watch others simply to avoid making the same mistakes– like the way we slow down at the scene of a car accident and try to assess what went wrong. But we already know the rules of driving: watch where you are going, don’t get distracted, follow the speed limit. Similarly, we already know the rules of life and just like the blazing crash on the freeway, we can’t truly know every contributing factor in people’s lives.

So what do you think? When is righteous judgment appropriate? Do you feel judged? How do you teach your children not to judge? How do you eliminate then temptation to judge others?

Comments

53 Responses to “How do I judge thee? Let me count the ways…”

dalene
September 5th, 2009 @ 10:24 am

great post michelle–we must be thinking along the same plane this weekend because i woke up in the middle of the night last night with similar thoughts swarming through my head. and here they are:

i love that god does not micromanage us! (if you think about it–that was the other plan.) i believe we can learn and grow and develop a deeper faith and commitment when we are allowed to decide things like such as “what does it mean to me to keep the sabbath day holy?” (or obey the word of wisdom, or be reverent, or observe the law of chastity, etc.). sure there are guidelines and there are some specific rules, but mostly it is left up to us to seek the spirit and to govern ourselves.

we do have both the right and the responsibility to judge what is right for us and our families. as was said in a recent post–to form positions about issues or some of those less-spelled out commandments–and to apply them to ourselves. but i personally feel very strongly it is wrong to apply what we have determined through inspiration to be right for us to others who have the same right to seek inspiration and determine what is right for them.

that said–it takes constant effort for me to refrain from judging. i once stated it seems to be part of our culture, but i honestly believe it is human nature to try to sort out our world into something we understand. it’s natural to want to do that from our own perspectives–what we know, what we feel, what we believe.

but when i try to love people as the savior loves and to remember that their perspectives–their experiences and beliefs–differ from my own, it helps me kick the judgment out of my head and it makes more room for compassion and empathy in my heart. i feel confident that i can do that without wavering from what i have judged to be right for me.

i know we are hard on ourselves and we are hard on each other. i am just relieved that at the end of the day god–who truly knows our hearts–will be our judge.

if it were up to some of my neighbors, i might be sending all of you heaven-bound souls postcards from dark side during the next life.
dalene
September 5th, 2009 @ 10:24 am

sorry–didn’t mean to leave a comment as long as your post!
Leslie
September 5th, 2009 @ 10:46 am

Great topic M.

I have to say I have always been bugged by the line “Don’t judge me”. (I think judge is a hideously loaded word). I guess because I find it an ironic line because- It assumes judgement (or more specifically a type of judgement). It assumes the other person is thinking something bad. I think it’s become a too common shield -in our world of anything goes, accept everyone.We do not live in a moral-less vacuum. We must all establish philsophies, ideas, standards, to govern our lives, I think we should not be afraid to share those. However part of my apriori assumptions are that we each have different abilites, understanding, predispositions, weaknesses, strengths, emotional baggage from our past, etc. So while I might believe something, I don’t expect someone else to understand it or their behaviors to necessarily be the same as mine? I still treat others with love, kindness respect even when they disagree.

I think it is easy to let pride or our pet sins get a place in us and we use the “don’t judge line” as a sort of cop-out to protect us from our insecurities, developing deeper humility, or truly letting go of things that aren’t right or damaging to us.

I really appreciate people sharing their experiences and beliefs and where they are coing from. I think it builds compassion far more than a don’t judge reaction.

I don’t feel judged, but then again I am pretty much a let it roll off me kind of girl, not easily offended. I really don’t spend along time thinking about it- because I don’t think it get’s me anywhere. I live somewhere where my opinions and practices will always been looked at with skepticism, and often disapproval (I actually knew of a woman who said she didn’t think we could be friends because I don’t drink?) I think I’m generally a pretty good person, have weaknesses, make mistakes but i keep trying and thats what matters and what I expect from others? I teach my children to develop their philosphies based on beliefs and consequences- they will be different that the rest of the world. I try to teach my children by having many friends, by showing that there are many people I love deeply, respect, and have been great influences in my life even if their choices aren’t the same.
Just V.
September 5th, 2009 @ 10:48 am

Michelle L. and Dalene,
It seems that the temptation to judge others is one of our biggest challenges. I think we all probably feel judged by others in one way or another. I know I need to try harder to be less judgmental (especially of those that I may think are judging me). Your words are a great reminder to me. Thank you both.
Just V.
September 5th, 2009 @ 10:52 am

And Leslie, I agree with you too. Possibly, we are being a lot less judged than we sometimes assume. Mostly, I think we are all good people, trying to do our best, and we are usually worrying more about the things we are doing ourselves, and not what other people are doing.
Sunny
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:00 am

As I said in another thread, going against the light that has come to you, not your brother, is sin. We cannot be sure what light has come to another. Even if we have been in the same classes, temples, and conferences the light we will have received will be different. Emerson said, “God enters by a private door into every individual”. You and I may hear the same doctrine, but will most likely receive different principles and therefore carry out different behaviors. Our progression is line upon line, sometimes we are on different lines. I think to look at another person and condemn or to decide how righteous or worthy they are is faulty in that it assumes we know what light has come to them.

Even when an action is obviously wrong, the noticing does no good unless it calls forth in me a sincere desire to recommit myself to live the principle in the question and to love the person all the more so that I become a steadying hand rather than a stumbling block. Being personally offended at another’s wrongdoing is the antithesis of love. The One who bore our offenses refused to take offense. What right do I have to do differently?
Mrs. M
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:01 am

Our courtyard has a swimming pool, and our youngest (4) has a hard time understanding why other people swim on Sunday and we don’t. He has no problem talking to people in the pool and telling them, “You should not swim today because it’s Sunday.” I tell him that our family has rules that are for our family and that other people get to make their own rules.

Even within my immediate family, we have very different ways of keeping the Sabbath holy, down to the question of keeping church clothes on all day or changing right after church.

I have experienced situations where if I were looking at myself from the outside, I would judge myself harshly. I hope that I am becoming less critical of others’ decisions.
martha
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:03 am

Two, maybe three conferences ago (my memory is horrific)a speaker stated that those who are busy serving and building the kingdom of the Lord don’t have time to criticize and judge their brothers and sisters (specifically their leaders, I believe was the context). And I know it’s the primary, elementary answer so this will exclude me from appearing to be intellectual, but I really believe it boils down to the essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ. When I am truly entrenched in love/charity, I am so not worried about what anyone else is doing that may or may not be “right”. I think often, at least in my case, the source of any judgment comes from a pride that pits me against them and God. This in turn may also make me feel judged. But if I truly am following the Savior, that love snuffs out and allows for no room for that pride.

Now where I have been given responsibility, like my children, myself, and my calling as YW president, there is a call to judge with love and righteousness so that I may serve those who fall under my mantel.

This is what I believe and aspire to, but not always what I do, because truly, I am tempted often to assess what my sister or brother is doing wrong. And it doesn’t feel good.
Natalie
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:05 am

Oh my heck, love this. LOVE this. I feel so judged sometimes at church. Sometimes I’ll make a joke and feel so judged I’m like whoa!
Christa
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:06 am

I don’t have anything amazing to say, I don’t have all the answers…I probably don’t even have 3 of the answers but this is something I’m constantly thinking about; with my children mostly. Now that my oldest is off to kindergarten the last thing I want her to do is say, “Sally you are being really in modest with that shirt with no sleeves!”
My point is that if I’m asked to give a talk I would like to read this verbatim- I of course will give you full credit. I believe our ward has a lot of judgement being freely given and this sparks a lot of thought.
Sunny
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:08 am

I think it is also important to note the difference between discerning and condemning. We often equate the word judging with condemning and, in that context, none of are in a place to condemn another. We can condemn sin itself, but then again, we need to be sure we aren’t assuming even the degree of sinfulness in another because we can’t be sure of the degree of light that was present.

Discerning is different. Again, in discerning right and wrong my responsibility lies not in condemning, but in loving.
Coach A.
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:12 am

Thanks for posting Michelle! I love to help the women I coach to cut down on stress in their lives. One of the key elements to eliminating stress is to make life more simple so we have more time for what really counts– enjoying life and loved ones!

If we hold a simple, yet extremely powerful standard of measure to ourselves and to others, maybe we all won’t get caught in the sticky mud of being judge(d).

What is that extrememly powerful standard of measure? It doesn’t come from the crispy clean kitchen on T.V. commercials, or from the model on the cover of the magazine at the store… the standard of measure comes from our Lord, the Examplar for us all– and as Dalene so beautifully said:

“love people as the savior loves”

…and enjoy every precious moment of your life!
Sunny
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:18 am

Ok, one more and then I’m out.

What about judging the judger? In the story of Bishop B I think many of us jump to the conclusion that the neighbor is a bit of a jerk, self-righteous, or whatever. Maybe he was, but it just isn’t important. My point is, the neighbors judgement (IMO) seems very unfair and, at least, he did not seem to deal with his concern in a charitable way. However, his unkindness does not give me the right to have unkind feelings toward him. I cannot jump to condemning him, judging his intent, etc. If I am hoping others will be gentle with my flaws, perceived or real, I must hold myself to the same standard.

Sometimes people do say hurtful things, condemn us, make unrighteous judgement, etc. Our obligation toward them remains the same. We must return love in the face of unkindness if we are to do what we are espousing here.
lee
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:20 am

Remember when the church broadcast the Nauvoo Temple dedication to all the stake centers and you had to show your reccomend to get in? Well as I drove towards that sacred event, I noticed my RS president out on her lawn tractor, just skipping the whole thing so she could mow her lawn. I’m sure she had a good reason. Wonderful woman, just different ways of doing things. A couple of her kids ended up in serious trouble, but again, great family, great people, I have no doubt the Lord loves them infinitely, and wants me to mind my own business.
Kathryn Soper
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:22 am

Thanks for this, Michelle. I quoted these words from Chieko Okazaki in my last comment on the plastic surgery thread, but I’ll do so again here:

In principles, great clarity.
In practices, great charity.

It’s funny how when we’re most certain we are Right with a capital R, we are most likely to be deceiving ourselves, to some extent at least. On Thursday my friend and I talked at length about the frustrating dynamics on the plastic surgery thread. At one point we both came to this conclusion: I can’t tolerate intolerant people!

And then we laughed, and laughed. At ourselves.
Just V.
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:27 am

Sunny, your words really ring true to me. Thank you, as well.
Not to get all sappy and warm and fuzzy here, but isn’t THIS what Segullah really is? ( I know, I am rolling my eyes at myself here too).
makakona
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:28 am

i’ve often said that the only thing i like about being a convert is how it helps me deal with these sorts of situations with my children. we have some truly phenomenal relatives. but they go shopping and to the movies on sundays. they wear things we wouldn’t wear. some drink alcohol. we just explain it all with a shrug and say, “different families have different rules.” because of my inactive in-laws, we never got into lds vs. non-lds, which i am now grateful for. when asked, we explain why we have our rules and we try hard to offer explanations other than “because the church says so.”

i judge others, for sure, but i try to keep it private. some judging is justified (drug use and BAD parenting choices, for example), but most is not. i sometimes feel judged, but i’ve become more zen about it in the last year or so. if i’m trying my best, i shouldn’t worry about what anyone else thinks. easier said than done, but i’m just too busy to deal with that much anymore.
Sunny
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:29 am

Kathryn,

Thanks for that quote. Simply beautiful. Your story reminds me of a conversation I had with a good friend recently in which we both said, “I just can’t stand self-righteous people. They make me so…. self-righteous.” Yeah, just a bit hypocritical. And of course they don’t make me that way. I have a “thing” about defending people I see as the underdog in a situation and I do it at the expense as those I see as the unfair aggressors. That is my unrighteous judgement: Pigeon-holing people into a negative quality I have either imagined or blown way out of proportion. I then respond to them as if this characteristic is their only characteristic and it’s my job to fix it. Ouch.
Sharlee
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:37 am

I truly believe there’s a lot less judging going on in our culture than we think. Insecurity and defensiveness seem to me to be the bigger problems.

Most people I know are kind, warm, caring, tolerant, and forgiving. But most people I know also tend to think that other people are judging them.
Carol
September 5th, 2009 @ 11:52 am

Righteous judment is appropriate as we attempt to protect ourselves and our loved ones from harm. However, since none of us is omniscient, we cannot expect that we can perfectly do either in every circumstance. I am so focused in my relationship with God and with loving others that I seldom allow myself to feel judged. I feel sad for people who choose to judge others harshly, for they are denying themselves opportunities to experience joy.

I think we best teach our child by our examples of love, compassion, and forgiveness. As we seek to become more like our Savior, we judge less and love more. Every person carries heavy burdens, and many of them are not visible to the human eye. I seek to forgive others so that I may be forgiven, and when I catch myself juding another, I try to replace that thought with a loving, healing one.
wendy
September 5th, 2009 @ 12:03 pm

I haven’t read every comment, so forgive if I’m repeating someone. There is a difference between making a judgement that we don’t like what somebody is doing, and condemning them for what they are doing. We need to make judgement calls all the time about what we deem is appropriate or not for ourselves. We do are not to condemn others when their choices are different from ours.

I like that Okazaki quote, Kathryn. Wonderful.

I really like the points people have made about being so busy with our own lives, service, relationship with Deity, etc., that we don’t have time/energy/desire to judge others.

Great post, Michelle!
Kay
September 5th, 2009 @ 12:12 pm

Your post made me cry because right now I would like to quit from my role as the Bishop’s wife. It has only been a couple of months but already I feel overwhelmed by expectations. I have been told by several people what they expect of me in my ‘role’, and that I must always be ‘on show’. Is life not hard enough? Sadly the person who judges me the most is probably me. As the Bishop’s wife I am great at making myself feel inadequate. Quite possibly others don’t even know I exist at church, or notice what I and my family get up to. Our stake president told me that whatever I hear at church I should just walk away from it. This is a good lesson for me. Walk away from others judgements, comments, expectations and carry on trying to be happy.
Michaela Stephens
September 5th, 2009 @ 12:32 pm

I think sometimes when people say “don’t judge me” what they really mean is “don’t condemn me”. We kind of have to judge to get through this life. We’re judging for ourselves and our families in order to know what we should do.

That said, I think there is a lot more room for compassion when we weigh ourselves and others because there is so much that we don’t know. We don’t know all the circumstances. We don’t know how long a person may have suffered in silence before they have finally exploded over something small. We don’t know what mental or physical “thorns of the flesh” may be pricking and festering. We don’t know how much any one else knows of the principles of the gospel beyond what they say in conversations and testimony meetings. We’re all on a continuum of development at various stages. We also have different spiritual gifts.

Now, that said, something that stuck out to me in this blog post’s sketch was the neighbors actual words. “How am I supposed to teach my kids to keep the Sabbath holy when you’re outside tossing a Frisbee around!” It wasn’t just anyone playing frizbee, it was a bishop.

To me, in according to the neighbor’s words it doesn’t seem like any judgment is being expressed. What is expressed is that the example of a church leader is making it difficult for a father to teach his children about what activities their family doesn’t consider appropriate for the Sabbath day. Maybe tone presented in the sketch is harsh. (And I don’t know if I would have the guts to actually say something like that to a bishop…)

In making these observations, it seems to me that sometimes we are culturally programmed to jump on some offenses and not notice others. For instance, with the title “How do I judge thee? Let me count the ways..” we jump on the judgment bandwagon, rather than looking at the whole story, or even noticing the good things presented.. like how the bishop is spending bonding time with his wife and how the neighbor is trying to teach his children to keep the Sabbath.

Justice is about weighing both the evil and the good of both sides, taking all factors into account. We can’t judge perfect judgments because we don’t know all the factors, so while we do a rough estimate with as much as we know or can find out now in order to make our own decisions, we can then let it be knowing that a huge hunk of mercy and compassion will enter the equation in the Lord’s own time.
cms
September 5th, 2009 @ 1:33 pm

I enjoyed the post, but I also wanted to point out that much of the blogosphere runs on judgement posts–plastic surgery, working mothers, going to mcdonalds, etc. It is a phenomenon that is quite human and has been going on for generations.

Having said that, as it applies to our church. We have the example of the Pharisees as a religious people who became obsesses by the rules and forgot the spirit of the laws. One of the results is that now we have more responsibility and less direction. But more responsibility for ourselves, not for our neighbors.

You can be a member and not follow the word of wisdom, you can be relief society president and choose NOT to attend another church function and instead mow your lawn.

As for me, I’m choosing to focus on charity
Kathryn P.
September 5th, 2009 @ 1:43 pm

I enjoyed the post and reading the comments. My son came home from his mission, after serving the last couple months as an AP. A couple weeks later, during some conversation on Sunday, he announced, “One of my most spiritual companions grew up in a home where they were allowed to watch football on Sunday…” His implication was that he had a horrible childhood because he was raised by a zealot who had needlessly prevented him from watching football on Sunday. I laughed and bore my testimony of the blessings that had come into my life as I had used the Sabbath as a day to commune with God. I also added that he was welcome to raise his future children as he liked, but I wasn’t going to change the rules in our small condo, where irreverent noise is like second hand smoke. With my adult children, it helps me to remember that we are all on different spiritual paths and when they try to compare me to other parents and justify their choices based on what other LDS members do, I remind them that they need to work out their salvation with God and receive personal revelation direct from the source of all truth and light. At the judgement bar they won’t be able to justify their choices based on what their LDS neighbors were doing.
Angela
September 5th, 2009 @ 1:55 pm

Great post Michelle.

I think one of of the difficulties is the word itself: judgment. As Michaela pointed out, often when people say “don’t judge me,” what they really mean is, “don’t condemn me.” Or even, “Please love me despite my imperfections.” Of course, righteous people are supposed to make judgments all the time. Righteous people are supposed to stand up for correct principles. But what form should this support for righteousness take?

I often wish we had another word besides the phrase “righteous judgment,” because I think that can be interpreted by some that it’s okay to be harsh, sarcastic, dismissive, or angry, if the principle we’re “defending” is a righteous one. But take the story from the New Testament about the woman who’d committed adultery, for example. Those who were about to stone her were “defending,” in their own violent yet socially acceptable way, an important moral law. We should not cheat on our spouses. We all know what Christ’s response to their behavior was, though. “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”

While I agree that it’s important to stand up for righteous causes, I personally find it very very easy to condemn and rebuke, and very very difficult (sometimes) to understand a person who’s living his or her life in a way much different from my own, or forgive a person who has done something wrong. And, in my experience, what God wants me to do, usually, is the hard thing. To me, “righteous judgment” ISN’T about vehemently opposing things that are wrong, no matter who gets hurt along the way. “Righteous judgment” is using my powers of discernment in a righteous way. In the way my Heavenly Father would want me to do it: kindly, humbly, remembering that we are all children of God. And that, to me, is a skill more important to master than that of standing on my metaphorical rooftop, shouting at the sinners.

And I love Chieko Okazaki.
Nan
September 5th, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

Love that whole chapter from that Chieko book. I also love the point about discernment, which maybe could be termed “righteous judgment.” This discernment allows us to learn from others’ mistakes without committing each mistake ourselves. The key is to use this discernment to change our OWN behavior, not point out the need for others to change theirs.
Lucy
September 5th, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

People mind their own business!
m&m
September 5th, 2009 @ 3:06 pm

I think judgment is part of our natural, fallen selves. We look to the side to determine where we are, if we are good enough, etc. I think it’s tied to insecurity and a need for a knowledge of if we are doing ok. We all ache to know that we are ok before God, and sometimes seeing someone doing something differently can feel like a threat (if we perceive them as ‘more righteous’) or a boost (if we think we are ‘more righteous.’)

But, rather than look to the side, isn’t the key really to look up, to look to God I think of one element of faith as described in the Bible Dictionary — “The effects of true faith in Jesus Christ include1 an actual knowledge that the course of life one is pursuing is acceptable to the Lord.” When we really look up to get that sense, I think we are less likely to try to look to the side to figure out what is “Right.”

My other thought is how faith and hope and charity are all tied together. In the end, these things are spiritual gifts, but I do I do find that the more I try to make *conscious* choices to replace reflexive judgmental thoughts (they sometimes come w/o me wanting them or choosing them), the more I feel charity distilling.

I love Sunny’s 13, too. In the end, getting upset about someone’s perceived judgment is judgment in and of itself! We ALL fall prey to this so easily. I think ultimately, the key really is to look to, and to seek to be more grounded in, Christ.
Michelle L.
September 5th, 2009 @ 3:18 pm

Thanks for all of your comments. I purposely left the original post short and open-ended with the intention that you would teach ME.

I love your point Sunny about judging the judgmental. One of my friends often says, “I have trouble feeling charity for the uncharitable!” The person offended by Frisbee playing on the Sabbath was likely raised with some pretty strict rules.

My parents are converts and as a little girl I was often confused by family rules and church rules. Imagine my surprise when I learned that motorcycle riding ISN’T against the commandments.
jendoop
September 5th, 2009 @ 3:50 pm

The English language is inadequate for this discussion. Judgment is such a loaded word but means different things in different situations and to different people.

In everyday life I try as much as possible to operate with a mantle of charity, suspending judgment because I do not know the full story in anyone’s life but my own. I don’t always do this well, but I really try and hope that others do the same for me. If they don’t, and judge me harshly, then it is still my goal to have a Christ-like attitude and not hate them or lash out because of my own wounded feelings.

In internet discussions such as the ones on Segullah I operate in a slightly different fashion, much as I would operate in a college classroom. A physics professor wouldn’t call me uncharitable if I asked him to explain why he used a certain equation to get an answer or that I had thoughts in another direction. There would be no cries of judgement or un-Christ-like attitudes. The larger discussion is improved when every person is honest and open – judging and then sharing those opinions.

It makes my eyes water and finger twitch over the mouse, creeping closer to the big red “X” (to shut down explorer) when I am asked to give my opinion on Segullah only to be told I’m being judgemental, as if it were a sin.
m&m
September 5th, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

Good points, jendoop. I wonder, though, if everyone views internet discussion in that more academic way. Probably depends on the day for many of us. Some days, it’s a distant, analytical thing, and other times, it may be deeply personal.
Selwyn
September 5th, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

Jendoop, PLEASE don’t go! I enjoy your comments and opinions!

So many times, if someone says something that you don’t agree with, that hits your “hot button” or hurts you in some way, they are being “judgemental”.

If someone says something that you agree with, validates your own actions/thoughts and supports you/makes you feel better, they are being “supportive”!

Everyone makes judgements, consciously or not. Beauty, size, intellect, social skills, housekeeping, humour – it’s all judged. Shouldn’t be, but is.

In my life, and in trying to raise my boys, I just try to remember everyone has their agency to do with as they wish. According to God’s laws they may act wrongly, but that’s between them and the Lord. Sure, their actions usually have ramifications for others, but I take my responsibility to use discernment and compassion seriously.

That, and I just don’t have time to waste on things that just aren’t my concern – I’m more focussed on doing what the Lord requires and what I can for myself and for my boys. I love in D&C where it says (paraphrased) – let the Lord judge between me and thee, and judge thee on thy actions. I’m not interested in taking God’s job! Forget judgement (righteous or otherwise) – I’m trying AND HOPING for charity, not emnity, compassion, not condemnation.
Kathryn Soper
September 5th, 2009 @ 6:45 pm

It makes my eyes water and finger twitch over the mouse, creeping closer to the big red “X” (to shut down explorer) when I am asked to give my opinion on Segullah only to be told I’m being judgemental, as if it were a sin.

Wait a minute here.

This is not a bait-and-switch exercise. We all have the right to our opinions, and when asked, it’s perfectly appropriate to share them. But analyzing math equations is not the same game as analyzing a social trend. And more importantly, challenging a social trend is not the same as challenging an individual’s personal choices. Different rules of engagement apply.

The firestorm in the other thread happened because these things got mixed up.

That said, Jendoop, please stick around.
Emily M.
September 5th, 2009 @ 7:44 pm

jendoop, I love your comments! I hope you don’t leave.

What causes me to judge: when I come into contact with someone whose worldview on a given issue is totally foreign to mine, but _I expected it to be the same_. That is why I’m much more likely to judge other members, because I know that we’ve all been given the same counsel and the same scriptures and there’s a part of me that expects that everyone will apply the things we’ve been given in the same way.

But we don’t. We really don’t. And so I have to learn to see past my expectations and into the other person’s heart.

A lot of the time I stink at it. But sometimes I learn to see eye to eye, and it is sweet.
Michelle L.
September 5th, 2009 @ 8:03 pm

ah jendoop, I hope this post didn’t come across as a lecture to anyone. I certainly didn’t intend it that way. It was just an easy thing to write this morning when I was too overwhelmed to write about being overwhelmed.
Kristin
September 5th, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

The best one-liner I ever heard to help me not judge others is, “Lord, help me not to judge those who choose to sin differently than I do.” When I feel like I am crossing over the line between discernment and condemnation, I think of this phrase, and am reminded that I need the Lord’s mercy and that it is not my call to decide whether or not the other person is right or wrong.

I think sometimes this is a maturity issue too. Children see the world in black and white. The thing is modest, or it isn’t, and when the principle they are being taught is new, they pay attention to it in people all around them. (Mom, that girl is not modest! )

With age and experience, most children come to understand that not everyone has been taught as they have, and that not everyone will choose what they have been taught anyway. I think this stage is where it gets tricky. Either we 1. learn to judge our personal righteousness on how we feel we are keeping our covenants and whether or not we are worthy of the companionship of the spirit or 2. find it necessary to still compare ourselves to others in order to justify how righteous we think we are (or aren’t).

I talk with my children a lot about the choices they see in their friends and the families of their friends…coffee, alcohol, immodesty, etc. I always focus on 1. that they can hold their standards no matter what anyone else is doing 2. they should always be friendly and kind to others regardless of their choices, because that is what Christ would do. I also work to set an example of not speaking unkindly of others, whether or not they are present.
Melissa Y.
September 5th, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

That’s a great line, Kristin!

One of my fave scriptures is the last line of Mark 9: “Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.”

We all need to make judgements–decisions about how to live so that our internal “saltness” will increase. We are repeatedly told, however, to love and have peace with each other. It is possible to know your mind and heart and what helps you become more salty, express that with conviction and kindness, and still feel peace toward others who don’t gain salt the same way you do (or who would rather be spicy or sweet rather than salty).

It’s dang hard, though.

p.s. With salt as a metaphor for preservation or salvation/immortality, it’s interesting to think about what it means to be the salt of the earth. The goal is not to turn the whole earth into salt–only to preserve it. The best preserving influence (IMO) is the love of Christ.
Kids Football Shirt
September 6th, 2009 @ 3:15 am

I try as much as possible to operate with a mantle of charity, suspending judgment because I do not know the full story in anyone’s life but my own.
traci
September 6th, 2009 @ 5:43 am

I really appreciated jendop and kristin – Thank you sooo much. I also greatly agree and appreciate Selwyn – Thank you!

So as others have said – that is a judgement call too. I like the definitions given for the difference in judgement and condemnation. That helps! I also appreciate the fact that often i fell any kind of critique or suggestion is made in today’s society that we are ooohhhh so sensitive! I am kind of a shoot from the hip and apologize if I need to girl. I am sooo tired of being told I should not express myself, because it is not polite in today’s society to say anything except support. Really? When did that start?
In a small community – In our writer’s group II see so much time wasted by people reading their pieces and everyone clapping and no real critique. When I critique I am told – no, they may not take it the way you meant it. So why don’t we have a conversation then? Somehow that got lost along the way.
I think this is a demonstation of how it is in all of society today.

About commenting on Segullah – I love to come here every day, even tho I am not Mormon. I was sooo yearning for a forum of ideas and topics with real life and intelligent women – I found it. Do I sometimes feel judged or looked over because my views etc aren’t Mormon? Sure – but fortunately I am never sure if that is the truth or my over sensitiveness. I have never felt I had to go away, I hope no one else does either.
But then I’ve been told one would have to be pretty blunt to get that thru to me. Maybe that’s a good thing.

I have come to care for so many of you here – so much. Thank you for letting a Lutheran/Quaker attend.
Melissa M.
September 6th, 2009 @ 7:42 am

Traci, we’re so glad you are here! I, for one, always appreciate your comments. You add so much to our discussion–thank you for being here.
Sharlee
September 6th, 2009 @ 9:37 am

Traci, I always, always look forward to reading what you have to say. Thank you so much for sticking with us, imperfect though we may be.
angie f
September 6th, 2009 @ 4:03 pm

Kay–I am about a year ahead of you in the bishop’s wife journey. I wish I could say that the weight of the “role” gets any lighter, but that hasn’t happened yet. I find myself reacting exactly opposite to the judgments though, whether as an antidote or defiance, I don’t know. I WANT people to see my warts and my imperfections. I want them to know that this service stuff isn’t any easier, or any tidier for me than it is for them, that it is a choice. Maybe it’s helping mellow people and their vocal judgments, or maybe it’s just slowly inoculating me against their words. I’ll let you know. I do think it’s mellowing my natural tendencies toward judgment. Sister Okasaki’s thoughts have always been very tender and salient to me, but the quote Kathryn mentioned is particularly powerful as a mantra these days. Your Stake President is wise–his counsel works for all of us–but walking away is never easy, particularly difficult when we are at our most vulnerable.
Jen
September 6th, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

I know I have a tendency to hope for mercy from others when I am less than my best, so I try to give others the same consideration. I may be wrong, but I believe the Lord will be more merciful to those who make mistakes, yet are merciful and kind to others, than to those who do many things “right”, yet show little to no mercy to their fellowman.

Giving others the benefit of the doubt is a really hard thing to do for most people. When you come across someone who doesn’t have anything bad to say about anyone, or who truly tries to see the best in everyone, it is truly a rare occasion. It seems that Latter-Day Saints should be among the most considerate, forgiving and merciful people, yet we use our knowledge as a weapon against others, rather than for what it was intended.

I believe that if we are judgmental of others, the Lord will make a way for us to learn how to become less judgmental, maybe by giving us an opportunity to be embarrassed by a spouse or child, or just find ourselves in a situation where we are being judged wrongly by others and we have to suffer through it.

I believe the Lord is much more liberal with us when we are with others. As for the bishop having some down time with his wife throwing frisbee on Sunday, I can see the Savior joining right in the fun if He was there. Can you truly see Him pointing His finger saying “Bad bishop” like the neighbor essentially did? Truly the bishop and his wife deserve any time to unwind that they are given and that time happened to be on a Sunday. Good for them and may the next bishop in line be their neighbor!
traci
September 6th, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

Thank you all!
Dovie
September 6th, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

I’m catching up on Segullah instead of cooking dinner on this Sunday night. I’ll get to it, really I will, but it is just so darn hot and the swamp cooler does not work the way it use to. I am also listening to my daughter randomly fiddle and play on the electric guitar. It was my Dad’s. I ask her to do it soothes me and I can’t play. Also I am avoiding a stinky diaper (the third one today) to type this note and I let the baby watch a “Land Before Time” video. Before that I took a nap that was probably too long. This morning I was also late for church, before that I was short with my children and forgot that it was Fast Sunday and snacked on pretzels and fish crackers in Nursery. Don’t you judge me! JK.

You ladies are an oasis to me. Even when things wax a little feisty and judgmental. I don’t know what it is that I find here but there is a spirit about you that is kindred and renews me. Thanks. ~Dovie
A
September 6th, 2009 @ 6:55 pm

Heavenly Father loves you, sisters.

So much of this topic will lose it’s sting if we just forget what other people say and do and we decide not to be easily offended but, as my mom says, “Let it roll off your back like water on a duck.”

There is so much to do before our Savior comes, dear sisters, let’s not entertain the fiery darts of the adversary. Let’s be quick to forgive ourselves and others.

Keep an Eternal perspective and you’ll keep your smile

Now, let’s get to work. There is so much to do before the Savior comes again and all of us need to focus on doing our part. xoxo
Blue
September 6th, 2009 @ 11:30 pm

sunny, thank you for the wisdom and insights in your comments. they helped me think of things differently. i judge them to be good

and all of you are such a wonderful inspiration to me. i just love this place.
jendoop
September 7th, 2009 @ 7:45 am

Thanks for all your comments. I wasn’t fishing to be told to stay…

On Segullah, and other discussion sites, I really feel that to have the best dialogue possible everyone needs to feel free to share their true opinion instead of being afraid of stepping on toes. If we direct our comments toward the issue we are discussing, not toward a specific person then I think it should be easier to take no offense. (as the Segullah guidelines say, I think) And the advice given here for not taking offense is great as well. I’m for leaving the accusation of judgment out of our discussions all together.

I want to hear your opinions, even if they are so far from mine that I can’t see them from where I stand. That is one reason I come here, to have my vision expanded.
Ryan Janus
September 7th, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

Feeling judged is why my wife left the Church. Some people have a thicker skin to being judged than others. I’m a full-time professional musician with the Air Force, and I’m always judging my playing based on the playing of those around me. Sometimes this is healthy, sometimes not. It’s healthy when we judge ourselves against a higher standard, like Agassi’s tennis playing, Coltrane’s sax playing or President Monson’s knowledge of scriptures. This helps set a standard for us to improve. It’s unhealthy when we judge like the Pharisees, who thanked God in prayer that they were not like the hypocrites.

As an aside, I drink Mountain Dew and play sports on Sunday. Yes I’m judged on that, but I don’t think those things are wrong. Nor does my bishop – I have a current temple recommend and I’m still planning on going to the Celestial Kingdom. See you all there.
Kathryn Soper
September 7th, 2009 @ 1:19 pm

Jendoop, I completely agree. And I assume you agree that we can all express opinions without being hostile. Even if we’re not singling out a person by name, expressing contempt for people who have made a particular choice is hardly conducive to discussion. There was definite hostility in a few of the remarks on the plastic surgery thread, and that quickly polarized the discussion.

Nobody should have to walk on eggshells here, but we needn’t stomp around with steel-toed boots, either.
Coach A.
September 7th, 2009 @ 10:53 pm

Wow!

I’m so impressed with the dignity and respect shown for others as this discussion took place!! Just about any other blog out there would have been full of vulgar words, tantrums, and bad feelings for such a hot topic.

Do you remember the movie “You Are Special” or even “Johnny Lingo?” They both showed how love can overcome the sting of cruelty from others (and even sometimes one’s self). You can probably think of lots of other examples that show how powerful love can be.

I like that when our feelings are hurt (or anytime we wish), we can turn to a good friend who loves us to help us sort them out…and what better Friend than our Heavenly Father!

Keep smiling!!
Sue
September 10th, 2009 @ 11:46 am

In my mind, the only righteous judgment is the one that motivates US to do better. (And we’re not doing one bit better if we’re putting someone else down.)

I feel strongly about this. “Judge not” means just that, “judge not.” The Lord holds His judging job for a reason…because He can do it right. He sees the whole picture. He is perfect.

And we are most definitely not.