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	<title>Comments on: One more thing I&#8217;m thankful for</title>
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	<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/</link>
	<description>LDS women blogging about the peculiar and the treasured</description>
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		<title>By: cindy baldwin</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-166132</link>
		<dc:creator>cindy baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-166132</guid>
		<description>I completely &quot;get&quot; Melissa&#039;s comment about not worrying whether birth control was &quot;right or wrong,&quot; and don&#039;t think it shows a moral issue at all.

I have been married for about 15 months now, and have used birth control the whole time. Despite the fact that I deeply desire a baby (and would love one right now, thanks), there was never a question of having kids right away in my situation. Frankly, pregnancy has the potential to kill me, and if/when we pursue that option it will have to be very carefully planned, prayed about, and monitored. Right now, I still don&#039;t know if that will ever be an option for us. (Our alternative would probably be adoption.) When I got engaged my doctor almost had a hernia, insisting that I get on birth control right away (which I didn&#039;t, because I knew nothing would be necessary till we tied the knot!). She had had patients die because they were pregnant and didn&#039;t know it before. For me pregnancy is a serious issue that MUST be approached with caution and prayer.

For that reason, I have never felt guilty about being on birth control. I&#039;ve never spent a lot of time thinking about whether it was &quot;right or wrong&quot;. I firmly believe that we as LDS parents are meant to raise strong, loving, and maybe even large families. I can totally see how birth control would not be appropriate in every instance. For me, I never questioned whether or not it was right or wrong. I knew that it was the right (and really, the only) choice. I hope to someday before too long get the chance to bear a child of my own, but that may not be the wisest choice for me. (I want my children to have a mother to raise them, not a mother who died because of complications of pregnancy.) Either way, birth control is a must for me.

Also, one other reason I am grateful for birth control - I learned this summer that I have osteopenia (pre-osteoporosis thinning of the bone) in my spine, something that isn&#039;t uncommon in cystic fibrosis, my disease. I mentioned to the technician doing the bone scan that I take birth control pills with estrogen and she said &quot;That&#039;s good - if you didn&#039;t, your bones would be a lot worse!&quot; So... there are good things about hormonal birth control, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely &#8220;get&#8221; Melissa&#8217;s comment about not worrying whether birth control was &#8220;right or wrong,&#8221; and don&#8217;t think it shows a moral issue at all.</p>
<p>I have been married for about 15 months now, and have used birth control the whole time. Despite the fact that I deeply desire a baby (and would love one right now, thanks), there was never a question of having kids right away in my situation. Frankly, pregnancy has the potential to kill me, and if/when we pursue that option it will have to be very carefully planned, prayed about, and monitored. Right now, I still don&#8217;t know if that will ever be an option for us. (Our alternative would probably be adoption.) When I got engaged my doctor almost had a hernia, insisting that I get on birth control right away (which I didn&#8217;t, because I knew nothing would be necessary till we tied the knot!). She had had patients die because they were pregnant and didn&#8217;t know it before. For me pregnancy is a serious issue that MUST be approached with caution and prayer.</p>
<p>For that reason, I have never felt guilty about being on birth control. I&#8217;ve never spent a lot of time thinking about whether it was &#8220;right or wrong&#8221;. I firmly believe that we as LDS parents are meant to raise strong, loving, and maybe even large families. I can totally see how birth control would not be appropriate in every instance. For me, I never questioned whether or not it was right or wrong. I knew that it was the right (and really, the only) choice. I hope to someday before too long get the chance to bear a child of my own, but that may not be the wisest choice for me. (I want my children to have a mother to raise them, not a mother who died because of complications of pregnancy.) Either way, birth control is a must for me.</p>
<p>Also, one other reason I am grateful for birth control &#8211; I learned this summer that I have osteopenia (pre-osteoporosis thinning of the bone) in my spine, something that isn&#8217;t uncommon in cystic fibrosis, my disease. I mentioned to the technician doing the bone scan that I take birth control pills with estrogen and she said &#8220;That&#8217;s good &#8211; if you didn&#8217;t, your bones would be a lot worse!&#8221; So&#8230; there are good things about hormonal birth control, too.</p>
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		<title>By: m2theh</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165975</link>
		<dc:creator>m2theh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165975</guid>
		<description>As someone who has/is experienced infertility, birth control really isn&#039;t a concern for me.  Haven&#039;t used any in 12 years, and I have a 4-year-old that must have been a miracle baby.  That being said, I am a proponent of birth control because not every woman is capable of handling a large group of kids.  I know I struggle with the one I have--and desperately wanted!  I can&#039;t imagine having 4 or 5 or 8!

Also, I would not even consider talking to the bishop about a vasectomy.  I think it&#039;s a personal decision to be made between husband and wife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has/is experienced infertility, birth control really isn&#8217;t a concern for me.  Haven&#8217;t used any in 12 years, and I have a 4-year-old that must have been a miracle baby.  That being said, I am a proponent of birth control because not every woman is capable of handling a large group of kids.  I know I struggle with the one I have&#8211;and desperately wanted!  I can&#8217;t imagine having 4 or 5 or 8!</p>
<p>Also, I would not even consider talking to the bishop about a vasectomy.  I think it&#8217;s a personal decision to be made between husband and wife.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn Soper</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165970</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn Soper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165970</guid>
		<description>Anon (#16), that was a gracious apology--thank you. I apologize for the misunderstanding and I&#039;m glad you&#039;re part of this discussion.

(and #1, thank you as well.) 

Touchy topic = touchy commenters and even touchier admins. But I&#039;m very pleased with the conversation as a whole. Well done, Shelah. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon (#16), that was a gracious apology&#8211;thank you. I apologize for the misunderstanding and I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re part of this discussion.</p>
<p>(and #1, thank you as well.) </p>
<p>Touchy topic = touchy commenters and even touchier admins. But I&#8217;m very pleased with the conversation as a whole. Well done, Shelah.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz C</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165964</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165964</guid>
		<description>Health issues severely limit the family planning options open to us... we pay attention to the cycle, and that&#039;s worked well for 14 years. I do find one thing interesting: my parents were married for three years before having me, and both say that time together was wonderful and needed. My oldest was born within the first year of our marriage, and we don&#039;t regret it at all.

(In fact, on our first and only date, my then-date, now-husband said, &quot;Please understand that my goal in dating you is marriage, and children pretty quickly after that. I&#039;ve been waiting a long time to be a husband and dad, and I think you&#039;re the right one. If you&#039;re agreeable, cool. If that&#039;s not the right goal for you, please let me know.&quot; I was okay with that--for someone as lacking in spontaneity as I am, the instant &quot;YES, DO THIS&quot; confirmation was a real shocker. :) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Health issues severely limit the family planning options open to us&#8230; we pay attention to the cycle, and that&#8217;s worked well for 14 years. I do find one thing interesting: my parents were married for three years before having me, and both say that time together was wonderful and needed. My oldest was born within the first year of our marriage, and we don&#8217;t regret it at all.</p>
<p>(In fact, on our first and only date, my then-date, now-husband said, &#8220;Please understand that my goal in dating you is marriage, and children pretty quickly after that. I&#8217;ve been waiting a long time to be a husband and dad, and I think you&#8217;re the right one. If you&#8217;re agreeable, cool. If that&#8217;s not the right goal for you, please let me know.&#8221; I was okay with that&#8211;for someone as lacking in spontaneity as I am, the instant &#8220;YES, DO THIS&#8221; confirmation was a real shocker. <img src='http://segullah.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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		<title>By: Anon (#16)</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165962</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon (#16)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165962</guid>
		<description>Kathryn and others, I didn&#039;t mean to offend, and I realize that my statements came off differently than intended and differently than how I feel. I could write volumes about my opinion on this matter (trust that it&#039;s not something I take lightly or haven&#039;t given much thought to--and my opinions are based on more than just flippant observations), but only a tiny bit of what is in my mind and heart came out--rather passionately and not very well expressed. I apologize for that and will try to remember to not type with my foot in my mouth in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathryn and others, I didn&#8217;t mean to offend, and I realize that my statements came off differently than intended and differently than how I feel. I could write volumes about my opinion on this matter (trust that it&#8217;s not something I take lightly or haven&#8217;t given much thought to&#8211;and my opinions are based on more than just flippant observations), but only a tiny bit of what is in my mind and heart came out&#8211;rather passionately and not very well expressed. I apologize for that and will try to remember to not type with my foot in my mouth in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn Soper</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165925</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn Soper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165925</guid>
		<description>Cates, for all your intellectual finesse, you missed my point entirely, which is this: Blog Segullah is all about personal narrative. You&#039;re welcome to participate here if you respect the purposes of the forum. But if you feel compelled to make arguments that don&#039;t fit our paradigm, you should find a forum that&#039;s better suited to your preferred flavor of discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cates, for all your intellectual finesse, you missed my point entirely, which is this: Blog Segullah is all about personal narrative. You&#8217;re welcome to participate here if you respect the purposes of the forum. But if you feel compelled to make arguments that don&#8217;t fit our paradigm, you should find a forum that&#8217;s better suited to your preferred flavor of discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelah</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165902</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165902</guid>
		<description>Cates-- I want to thank you for sticking around and contributing meaningfully from the discussion. I feel like you&#039;ve provided a lot of food for thought in your comments and the discussion they&#039;ve sparked. 

Thanks again to all of you who have shared your stories. They continue to help me shape my feelings about birth control and how we use it in our home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cates&#8211; I want to thank you for sticking around and contributing meaningfully from the discussion. I feel like you&#8217;ve provided a lot of food for thought in your comments and the discussion they&#8217;ve sparked. </p>
<p>Thanks again to all of you who have shared your stories. They continue to help me shape my feelings about birth control and how we use it in our home.</p>
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		<title>By: cates</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165897</link>
		<dc:creator>cates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165897</guid>
		<description>Melissa (83), you were right not to take offense, because I obviously didn&#039;t direct my criticism at you personally but rather at a societal failure to frame the issue morally. You were clear in your first statement and I understood exactly what you meant; your follow-up comment confirms it. You don&#039;t consider the use of contraception to be a moral matter (ie, it doesn&#039;t fit in &quot;right or wrong&quot; categories), but rather you approach the matter in purely instrumental terms (what&#039;s best for me, and what outcome do I want). The reason you are able to think about it this way is that  our culture, or some segment thereof, has removed the moral dimension from politicized issues of life and reproduction. I see this as a moral failing in our society, one that affects all of us and particularly the unborn.

Emily (86), thanks very much for your thoughtful response. I suspect that our core disagreement is in whether personal narrative is a reliable way to arrive at objective moral truth---what you call &quot;our capacity to see others clearly than to hear their honest, real stories.&quot;  In my mind, the very act of artfully arranging the chaos and misdirection of lived experience into a coherent narrative is a step away from objective clarity: to construct a narrative, we must shape, omit, and emphasize different kinds of information, and we are inevitably going to do so according to our own limitations and biases. A personal narrative is going to be deeply informed by whatever blind-spots and delusions we harbor about ourselves and our motives, and heaven knows we all have them. This is not to say that personal narrative is &quot;corrupt&quot;; on the contrary it&#039;s important in several capacities, including maintaining our sanity and self-identity, organizing our memories, and creating trust between individuals. But it is not particularly good at arriving at moral clarity, because its epistemological resources are so limited, it can only rely for legitimacy on a single person&#039;s inevitably limited, inevitably biased experience. That is why the only response Kathryn could make to me was, in effect, &quot;shut up&quot;---personal narrative, for all its uses, simply doesn&#039;t have the epistemological foundation to respond any other way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melissa (83), you were right not to take offense, because I obviously didn&#8217;t direct my criticism at you personally but rather at a societal failure to frame the issue morally. You were clear in your first statement and I understood exactly what you meant; your follow-up comment confirms it. You don&#8217;t consider the use of contraception to be a moral matter (ie, it doesn&#8217;t fit in &#8220;right or wrong&#8221; categories), but rather you approach the matter in purely instrumental terms (what&#8217;s best for me, and what outcome do I want). The reason you are able to think about it this way is that  our culture, or some segment thereof, has removed the moral dimension from politicized issues of life and reproduction. I see this as a moral failing in our society, one that affects all of us and particularly the unborn.</p>
<p>Emily (86), thanks very much for your thoughtful response. I suspect that our core disagreement is in whether personal narrative is a reliable way to arrive at objective moral truth&#8212;what you call &#8220;our capacity to see others clearly than to hear their honest, real stories.&#8221;  In my mind, the very act of artfully arranging the chaos and misdirection of lived experience into a coherent narrative is a step away from objective clarity: to construct a narrative, we must shape, omit, and emphasize different kinds of information, and we are inevitably going to do so according to our own limitations and biases. A personal narrative is going to be deeply informed by whatever blind-spots and delusions we harbor about ourselves and our motives, and heaven knows we all have them. This is not to say that personal narrative is &#8220;corrupt&#8221;; on the contrary it&#8217;s important in several capacities, including maintaining our sanity and self-identity, organizing our memories, and creating trust between individuals. But it is not particularly good at arriving at moral clarity, because its epistemological resources are so limited, it can only rely for legitimacy on a single person&#8217;s inevitably limited, inevitably biased experience. That is why the only response Kathryn could make to me was, in effect, &#8220;shut up&#8221;&#8212;personal narrative, for all its uses, simply doesn&#8217;t have the epistemological foundation to respond any other way.</p>
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		<title>By: m&#38;m</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165857</link>
		<dc:creator>m&#38;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165857</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I felt, and still feel, like The Lord takes a special interest in women because we share His job as creators of life. As such He will direct us as to what is best for our families. Often His plans are not our plans. &lt;/i&gt;

I love this. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I felt, and still feel, like The Lord takes a special interest in women because we share His job as creators of life. As such He will direct us as to what is best for our families. Often His plans are not our plans. </i></p>
<p>I love this. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennie</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/one-more-thing-im-thankful-for/#comment-165852</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5084#comment-165852</guid>
		<description>I went on the pill when I got married without thinking much of it.  I just knew I didn&#039;t want a baby right away.  I was glad that it worked for me and I was able to have my first baby three years later, when I wanted to.  I&#039;ve been pretty open to the promptings of the Spirit and have gone on and off the pill over the years.   I am extremely fertile for the most part (except for one four year stretch where I could NOT get/stay pregnant) and made the choice to have six kids.  Most people assume there are one or two &quot;ooops&quot; babies (it&#039;s amazing how many people will ask if they were all planned).  I love to tell them that yes, I actually meant to have that many, and I even meant for my last two babies to be 14 months apart (by that point I was thinking &quot;let&#039;s just get this over with!&quot;)

When the time has been right for me to get pregnant again, nothing stands in my way; not a lack of insurance or even the lack of a job.  I&#039;m sure people will think that&#039;s horrible, but in retrospect it wasn&#039;t that big of a deal.  The Lord blesses those who are willing to make such a leap of faith, I think, and having a baby is the ultimate leap of faith.

When I was pregnant with baby #6 I felt like we were finally finished having kids.  I had never felt that way before.  It wasn&#039;t that I was tired or overwhelmed (although some days I was).  I just finally felt like my family was complete. I was 35 and my husband was 41.  I had a vague inkling that vasectomies were frowned upon, but I knew we were done, so my husband and I felt completely fine about his getting one.  Honestly, I would never have discussed the subject with my bishop any more that I would have asked his opinion on how close together we should space our children.   I felt, and still feel, like The Lord takes a special interest in women because we share His job as creators of life.  As such He will direct us as to what is best for our families. Often His plans are not our plans. 

To me, birth control is a powerful blessing and is another example of the way the Lord gives us agency.  Just like sex, it can be used unwisely or it can be used with faith, following the Lord&#039;s counsel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went on the pill when I got married without thinking much of it.  I just knew I didn&#8217;t want a baby right away.  I was glad that it worked for me and I was able to have my first baby three years later, when I wanted to.  I&#8217;ve been pretty open to the promptings of the Spirit and have gone on and off the pill over the years.   I am extremely fertile for the most part (except for one four year stretch where I could NOT get/stay pregnant) and made the choice to have six kids.  Most people assume there are one or two &#8220;ooops&#8221; babies (it&#8217;s amazing how many people will ask if they were all planned).  I love to tell them that yes, I actually meant to have that many, and I even meant for my last two babies to be 14 months apart (by that point I was thinking &#8220;let&#8217;s just get this over with!&#8221;)</p>
<p>When the time has been right for me to get pregnant again, nothing stands in my way; not a lack of insurance or even the lack of a job.  I&#8217;m sure people will think that&#8217;s horrible, but in retrospect it wasn&#8217;t that big of a deal.  The Lord blesses those who are willing to make such a leap of faith, I think, and having a baby is the ultimate leap of faith.</p>
<p>When I was pregnant with baby #6 I felt like we were finally finished having kids.  I had never felt that way before.  It wasn&#8217;t that I was tired or overwhelmed (although some days I was).  I just finally felt like my family was complete. I was 35 and my husband was 41.  I had a vague inkling that vasectomies were frowned upon, but I knew we were done, so my husband and I felt completely fine about his getting one.  Honestly, I would never have discussed the subject with my bishop any more that I would have asked his opinion on how close together we should space our children.   I felt, and still feel, like The Lord takes a special interest in women because we share His job as creators of life.  As such He will direct us as to what is best for our families. Often His plans are not our plans. </p>
<p>To me, birth control is a powerful blessing and is another example of the way the Lord gives us agency.  Just like sex, it can be used unwisely or it can be used with faith, following the Lord&#8217;s counsel.</p>
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