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	<title>Comments on: Sam leaves the church</title>
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	<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/</link>
	<description>Mormon women blogging about the peculiar and the treasured</description>
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		<title>By: Jana</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-173810</link>
		<dc:creator>Jana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-173810</guid>
		<description>She should...not take anyone else&#039;s advice about what she should do.  Everyone&#039;s circumstances are unique.

I&#039;ve been through this and have tried all of the various scenarios above.  The advice from others&#039; (incl various bishops) about what I should do was not helpful.  Spending time in prayer, in meditation, and in setting my own life&#039;s priorities was helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She should&#8230;not take anyone else&#8217;s advice about what she should do.  Everyone&#8217;s circumstances are unique.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been through this and have tried all of the various scenarios above.  The advice from others&#8217; (incl various bishops) about what I should do was not helpful.  Spending time in prayer, in meditation, and in setting my own life&#8217;s priorities was helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Velska</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-173597</link>
		<dc:creator>Velska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-173597</guid>
		<description>Sorry for sloppy writing. I just saw a bunch of errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for sloppy writing. I just saw a bunch of errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Velska</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-173596</link>
		<dc:creator>Velska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-173596</guid>
		<description>My wife lived with a zombie for a husband. Then the zombie got his life back, and she got her husband back. It was unbelievably difficult for her, and also for me, when I realized where we had got to. I wasn&#039;t doubting the Church or the gospel, I was doubting me; I was also clinically depressed, in a very bad way (psychotic episodes).

I&#039;d say as long as Sam doesn&#039;t begin a game of one-upping her attempts to teach the kids right from wrong, she would do well to stick with #4. He might think again &#8212; so many have, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife lived with a zombie for a husband. Then the zombie got his life back, and she got her husband back. It was unbelievably difficult for her, and also for me, when I realized where we had got to. I wasn&#8217;t doubting the Church or the gospel, I was doubting me; I was also clinically depressed, in a very bad way (psychotic episodes).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say as long as Sam doesn&#8217;t begin a game of one-upping her attempts to teach the kids right from wrong, she would do well to stick with #4. He might think again &mdash; so many have, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Blog Segullah : Sam and Sally go to the Bishop</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-173542</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog Segullah : Sam and Sally go to the Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-173542</guid>
		<description>[...] and Sally go to the Bishop  *Previous installments of Sam and Sally can be found here and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and Sally go to the Bishop  *Previous installments of Sam and Sally can be found here and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-172801</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-172801</guid>
		<description>5- none of the above?

Sally should be heartbroken, upset, angry, sad, etc, and all the other feelings she has. She should let her husband know how she feels, but also respect him and love him enough to listen to his doubts and validate them. They should talk about it A LOT. She should allow him to have the space he needs to question. He should spend a LOT of time thinking about how his actions could affect their children&#039;s futures.

In the end, I think both Sally and Sam need to realize that whether JS was a prophet, whether the BoM is true, is the gospel a good influence on their children and lives? Is it worth it to uproot and leave? Is there enough good to stay and ignore what they don&#039;t like? Can Sally be okay with him not going to the temple, and can he be okay with attending sacrament with the family?

IMO it adds to more than just Sam doesnt believe anymore, and Sally wants a priesthood holder. There are children involved. A family that could be torn apart. There needs to be some deep discussions, and fast, before it self-destructs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>5- none of the above?</p>
<p>Sally should be heartbroken, upset, angry, sad, etc, and all the other feelings she has. She should let her husband know how she feels, but also respect him and love him enough to listen to his doubts and validate them. They should talk about it A LOT. She should allow him to have the space he needs to question. He should spend a LOT of time thinking about how his actions could affect their children&#8217;s futures.</p>
<p>In the end, I think both Sally and Sam need to realize that whether JS was a prophet, whether the BoM is true, is the gospel a good influence on their children and lives? Is it worth it to uproot and leave? Is there enough good to stay and ignore what they don&#8217;t like? Can Sally be okay with him not going to the temple, and can he be okay with attending sacrament with the family?</p>
<p>IMO it adds to more than just Sam doesnt believe anymore, and Sally wants a priesthood holder. There are children involved. A family that could be torn apart. There needs to be some deep discussions, and fast, before it self-destructs.</p>
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		<title>By: Faithful</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-172684</link>
		<dc:creator>Faithful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-172684</guid>
		<description>Dear Jennifer,
When I read of your situation it breaks my heart, I could hardly stand to read your last line. I cannot even imagine how hard this must be for you. To me, dying a slow death might be the most painful option of all.

I cannot give you any advice, I only want to say that I believe the Savior is aware of you and your situation and He has healing there for you. I have seen the Lord change some very hard hearts, making them new men, so much that you would not even recognize them as being the same person. I think of the way the Lord changed the hard hearts of many of the Lamanites, totally changing their lives. But remember also that there came a point where the Lord told Ammon and the now Anti-Nephi-Lehites to leave for their own survival because their brethren were to hard hearted, and wouldn’t allow the Lord to change them.
Jennifer you will be in my prayers, I will pray for your healing, I will pray that you will be strengthened, pray that you will know what to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jennifer,<br />
When I read of your situation it breaks my heart, I could hardly stand to read your last line. I cannot even imagine how hard this must be for you. To me, dying a slow death might be the most painful option of all.</p>
<p>I cannot give you any advice, I only want to say that I believe the Savior is aware of you and your situation and He has healing there for you. I have seen the Lord change some very hard hearts, making them new men, so much that you would not even recognize them as being the same person. I think of the way the Lord changed the hard hearts of many of the Lamanites, totally changing their lives. But remember also that there came a point where the Lord told Ammon and the now Anti-Nephi-Lehites to leave for their own survival because their brethren were to hard hearted, and wouldn’t allow the Lord to change them.<br />
Jennifer you will be in my prayers, I will pray for your healing, I will pray that you will be strengthened, pray that you will know what to do.</p>
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		<title>By: jennifer</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-172666</link>
		<dc:creator>jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-172666</guid>
		<description>another thing that&#039;s really painful to find out is how much &quot;Sam&quot; has been seeking emotional fulfillment outside the marriage.  He says &quot;Sally&quot; makes it really hard to talk about some of the things that matter most to him personally, like all the stuff he&#039;s learning in his new study, or some of the awful things friends and family say to him when they realize that he has lost his testimony.  

Of course, Sally also seeks her emotional fulfillment outside hte marriage too.  Most of her conversations with friends, family, church leaders are about how to deal with Sam&#039;s loss of faith, and most of his conversations with friends (because he feels like he has lost his family, who treat him like a second-class citizen) are about how to deal with the changes created in his life as he prepares to leave the church.

Most of Sam and Sally&#039;s conversations with each other are about the kids or the house or what to do on date-night, which usually involves going to see a ball game or play or movie, so that if they have to talk, it&#039;s about what they saw.

Maybe the &quot;Sam and Sally&quot; I know are more extreme than the version most other people here seem to know....  but I don&#039;t think so.  There&#039;s no abuse or cruelty.  there&#039;s just the sense that each spouse has gotten stuck with someone they don&#039;t really know and can&#039;t really know, but since they have five kids, including that toddler Sally has to dress for church all by herself, they might as well be good parents (because they both sincerely want what they think is best for their kids--they just have completely opposite ideas about that).  Sally no longer reads Sam&#039;s journal or goes through on his email (which is how she found most of hte things out--though she doesn&#039;t read them mostly because he hid his journal and changes his password) and they have gotten past the stage of having huge fights, so there&#039;s no open hostility.  They both fear what it will do to their reputations, their finances and their self-esteem to get divorced.  So they choose #4.  

And every so often a friend tells them that they seem to be dying a slow death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another thing that&#8217;s really painful to find out is how much &#8220;Sam&#8221; has been seeking emotional fulfillment outside the marriage.  He says &#8220;Sally&#8221; makes it really hard to talk about some of the things that matter most to him personally, like all the stuff he&#8217;s learning in his new study, or some of the awful things friends and family say to him when they realize that he has lost his testimony.  </p>
<p>Of course, Sally also seeks her emotional fulfillment outside hte marriage too.  Most of her conversations with friends, family, church leaders are about how to deal with Sam&#8217;s loss of faith, and most of his conversations with friends (because he feels like he has lost his family, who treat him like a second-class citizen) are about how to deal with the changes created in his life as he prepares to leave the church.</p>
<p>Most of Sam and Sally&#8217;s conversations with each other are about the kids or the house or what to do on date-night, which usually involves going to see a ball game or play or movie, so that if they have to talk, it&#8217;s about what they saw.</p>
<p>Maybe the &#8220;Sam and Sally&#8221; I know are more extreme than the version most other people here seem to know&#8230;.  but I don&#8217;t think so.  There&#8217;s no abuse or cruelty.  there&#8217;s just the sense that each spouse has gotten stuck with someone they don&#8217;t really know and can&#8217;t really know, but since they have five kids, including that toddler Sally has to dress for church all by herself, they might as well be good parents (because they both sincerely want what they think is best for their kids&#8211;they just have completely opposite ideas about that).  Sally no longer reads Sam&#8217;s journal or goes through on his email (which is how she found most of hte things out&#8211;though she doesn&#8217;t read them mostly because he hid his journal and changes his password) and they have gotten past the stage of having huge fights, so there&#8217;s no open hostility.  They both fear what it will do to their reputations, their finances and their self-esteem to get divorced.  So they choose #4.  </p>
<p>And every so often a friend tells them that they seem to be dying a slow death.</p>
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		<title>By: m&#38;m</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-172653</link>
		<dc:creator>m&#38;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 09:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-172653</guid>
		<description>I always get a little squirmy when something as serious as divorce is tossed around in discussions like this, because what leads to even considering (let alone making) such a decision is usually so complex, where what can be captured and known in a blog discussion is so limited. I *know* there are situations that warrant divorce, but I can&#039;t imagine going into such a decision w/o clear revelation. Divorce is so hard on everyone, even with such a clear answer. 

My thoughts for &quot;Sally&quot; (ie., anyone in such a situation) would be to pray like never before (seeking counsel from those you can trust and talk to about all that is happening) and then sort out what is right in the complexity and whole view that only God knows.

FWIW, I have friends whose husbands have gone through sort of personal faith and/or identity crises (and sometimes made the issues about the wife); not all ended terribly, but some required patience, love, and endurance. Others found that they really were in seriously abusive situations that couldn&#039;t be remedied, so they got out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always get a little squirmy when something as serious as divorce is tossed around in discussions like this, because what leads to even considering (let alone making) such a decision is usually so complex, where what can be captured and known in a blog discussion is so limited. I *know* there are situations that warrant divorce, but I can&#8217;t imagine going into such a decision w/o clear revelation. Divorce is so hard on everyone, even with such a clear answer. </p>
<p>My thoughts for &#8220;Sally&#8221; (ie., anyone in such a situation) would be to pray like never before (seeking counsel from those you can trust and talk to about all that is happening) and then sort out what is right in the complexity and whole view that only God knows.</p>
<p>FWIW, I have friends whose husbands have gone through sort of personal faith and/or identity crises (and sometimes made the issues about the wife); not all ended terribly, but some required patience, love, and endurance. Others found that they really were in seriously abusive situations that couldn&#8217;t be remedied, so they got out.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa M.</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-172642</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 06:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-172642</guid>
		<description>#58 Jennifer, I have to agree with Strollerblader. There are far more serious issues at play here than faith/testimony/word of wisdom issues. You deserve to have a spouse who loves and respects you, no matter what his religious beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#58 Jennifer, I have to agree with Strollerblader. There are far more serious issues at play here than faith/testimony/word of wisdom issues. You deserve to have a spouse who loves and respects you, no matter what his religious beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: chantico</title>
		<link>http://segullah.org/daily-special/sam-leaves-the-church/#comment-172638</link>
		<dc:creator>chantico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 05:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://segullah.org/?p=5562#comment-172638</guid>
		<description>Not #1. Sally&#039;s already got a whole church behind her, what exactly does she hope to get by involving the bishop in it? If it&#039;s for her own councelling then that&#039;s fine, but don&#039;t expect to win any points with the husband for it.

As for divorce? If it&#039;s true that he doesn&#039;t love her anymore then that&#039;s a good reason to get a divorce. But any other reason is a bit silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not #1. Sally&#8217;s already got a whole church behind her, what exactly does she hope to get by involving the bishop in it? If it&#8217;s for her own councelling then that&#8217;s fine, but don&#8217;t expect to win any points with the husband for it.</p>
<p>As for divorce? If it&#8217;s true that he doesn&#8217;t love her anymore then that&#8217;s a good reason to get a divorce. But any other reason is a bit silly.</p>
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