Staying Grounded

Posted by Jenny Whitcomb | June 23, 2010 | 58 Comments

My brother Aaron wrote a family letter day-before-yesterday, chronicling the goings-on of his week. It was informal, cheery and full of the stuff that makes up his life. In closing, he mentioned an article he had read in this month’s Ensign magazine; a Devotional Address entitled “Things As They Really Are” by Elder David A. Bednar. My brother’s final two sentences were: “We are living in a virtual world and people are losing their grip on reality. Stay grounded.”

Those two sentences left me thinking about reality and staying grounded longer than I had planned. His letter brought to mind a discussion my husband and I had regarding Facebook a few weeks ago. The conversation centered on being able to keep in touch with people who, without the internet, would be WAY off the radar screen.

We recently had an internet safety class in our ward (it was sparsely attended) that pointed out the dangers of establishing cyber-relationships with members of the opposite sex. Some in-class comments by a woman I admire and respect left me thinking about my own online and Facebook relationships.Things I know: I am a strong woman. I like to think that I am in control of my world. I do not spend an inordinate amount of time online. My kids are watching me. Things I don’t think about: I’m generally happy and probably fairly naïve when it comes to cyber-danger.

My husband told me about a morning radio program he had listened to on his drive to work, where the DJs cited some new statistics about divorce—and that the new most common cause of divorce is online relationships. I think to myself, if I have no desire to enter a real room and hang out casually to chat with Fred Smith, why would we hang out virtually? Elder Bednar warned “We live at a time when technology can be used to replicate reality, to augment reality, and to create virtual reality.”

He goes on to say “I raise an apostolic voice of warning about the potentially stifling, suffocating, suppressing, and constraining impact of some kinds of cyberspace interactions and experiences upon our souls. The concerns I raise are not new; they apply equally to other types of media, such as television, movies, and music. But in a cyber world, these challenges are more pervasive and intense.”

Before Aaron wrote his letter, I made the decision to un-friend all male friends on Facebook who were not relatives. Don’t virtually flog me—I’m not telling anyone what to do. I love the connections I have made online. There are fantastic people with so much to offer spiritually, intellectually and with valuable insight I would find in no other arena. By taking this step, I’m admitting to myself that there is potential danger lurking in cyberspace. I’m also admitting that I am not immune to situation, circumstance and temptation. I am a blogger, I have a facebook profile and I love to visit numerous sites (of which Segullah ranks near the top) online.

With caution and with the Spirit, I know I will be able to safely navigate through the amazing world that is the internet and remain the same strong, in-control woman I know myself to be.

What are your thoughts on cyber relationships? How do you maintain real and virtual fidelity? How does your online routine affect those around you?

Comments

58 Responses to “Staying Grounded”

Kellie
June 23rd, 2010 @ 6:31 am

Thanks for this. I do not blog (except photos), I have not joined facebook (no need to friend or un-friend anyone)…but I do maintain friendships with people who were friends before I married. I write a letter to our family and friends, weekly (we live overseas, but even that I control who receives it). However, any correspondence between me and members of the opposite sex are addressed to the husband AND WIFE. There is no illusion that I am addressing anyone but the WHOLE FAMILY. Same with my spouse. Friendships don’t have to end, but there has to be an openness and taking in of the spouse, adding a new person to the relationship.
Great topic!
Kellie
June 23rd, 2010 @ 6:33 am

I should add that I value the relationship with my husband more than I could value an old friendship. My husband/wife relationship is my main priority.
Melanie
June 23rd, 2010 @ 7:22 am

After hearing this talk I decided to un-friend all married male friends on Facebook. Rarely did I look at their profiles, and I’m sure they rarely, if ever, looked at mine. But still, I would never want to put myself or anyone else in a tempting situation. I’m not in contact with any of these people anymore, so I’m pretty positive me “de-friending” wasn’t an offense.

Interstingly enough, just last evening I heard a radio DJ offer his opinion that cyber-flirting was perfectly okay if one was in a relationship, as long as it was done in a public forum. How disturbing that people think this way!
molly
June 23rd, 2010 @ 7:24 am

i’m still wrapping my head around the article… trying to figure out what’s right for me. i applaud your efforts regarding FB – i have closed and reopened my account many times… still am undecided about how to handle that.
Red
June 23rd, 2010 @ 8:38 am

I don’t really love FB, but now that my oldest child is online, I check his FB activity everyday (and we have his password and our computer(s) are in very public places, among other safety precautions).

For better or worse, social networking is here to stay and a very real part of chaperoning my children is virtual.
carriem
June 23rd, 2010 @ 8:52 am

Love this article. Some of the measures we take to avoid bad situations may seem over-the-top to others, but I think caution is the best thing when we’re dealing with such important matters.
Eliana
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:10 am

It is depressing sometimes to have to err on the side of caution, but I too have decided it is necessary. I know too many people who got into an immoral situation from baby steps in the wrong direction. It has been hard for me in my married life (11 years) to give up other male relationships, but it has been necessary. Lame? Yes. Worth it? Yes.
Jill Shelley
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:21 am

And yet another reason why we have latter day prophets and leaders. Satan changes his ways to get into our lives and we need to be warned. But as with everything evil, there is also the counter balance of good. Without the internet, I would have not met my very dear husband. I also would not have so many wonderfully inspiring and thought provoking friends across this US and beyond.
Jody
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:29 am

I have been debating whether or not to just close my FB account for months.

One – I rarely get on there. I do like to see what my kids are doing and a handful of friends. But I never go to anyones profile.

Two – The friends I USE to have, well we have nothing in common now. Why do I even want to stay in contact? We don’t DO anything together.

Three – When I do get on there and try to start a conversation with someone, I usually get no response. Then I get to thinking…well they are either too busy playing games (which I have blocked) or they just don’t want to talk. So why bother?

Still having a hard time deciding. I have found a long lost cousin through FB and SOMETIMES I get some information of activities going on in our community. What ta do?
Jenny
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:33 am

Melanie,
I find it interesting that I’ve heard several radio DJs talk about cyber flirting and relationships with the opposite sex being acceptable,whether or not your spouse is okay with it.

Molly- I think this is and has to be an individual decision.

Red- you’re right. Social networking is not going to go away. We need to decide how best to manage these forums ahead of time so that we can be prepared when questions arise.

Jill- amen to the counterbalance of good. It’s important to see both sides.
Jess
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:35 am

I find myself totally agreeing with your decision, which is a sort of conundrum for me. My husband and I met while being EFY counselors, and honestly if it wasn’t for facebook we would never had met up again. That type of social networking lead me to my husband – and both of us readily admit to facebook being an easy means of flirting.

Now that I am married, facebook has different uses for me. I work with a philanthropic organization, and the vast network of friends I have come in contact with over my college years has proven to be beneficial to the work we are trying to accomplish. It seems that either you need to use facebook as a social site (meaning keeping in touch with friends) or use it as a networking site (meaning promoting good things to many people), but combining the two can be very dangerous.

I love where you stated: “Things I don’t think about: I’m generally happy and probably fairly naïve when it comes to cyber-danger.” I worry that I am erring on the side of being naive thinking that I would never fall into the cyber-relationship trap.
amy jo
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:52 am

Holy cow. I think I’m more naive than you! You’re saavy in my book.
Kathryn Soper
June 23rd, 2010 @ 10:59 am

I worry that I am erring on the side of being naive thinking that I would never fall into the cyber-relationship trap.

A very real danger. And on its flip side is, in my opinion, an equally damaging lie: “I am not capable of appropriate social networking with members of the opposite sex.”

Tricky balance.
Kerri
June 23rd, 2010 @ 11:01 am

I’m just going to speak up on the pro-Facebook side of this argument. Because of Facebook, many relationships I valued in the past have been rekindled. I have reconnected on deep levels with many high school friends and cousins (I have many) that I haven’t seen for years. We have had spiritual discussions, political discussions, life discussions that have taught me and enriched me.

We had a recent tragedy in our family. The outpouring of love has been remarkable. I came home from the funeral to find six condolence cards in the mail. All but one of them were from these friends. They are not just internet friends. They are real friends (and I guess I should add…all of them are female.)

Is there danger? Yes. And taking proactive steps, when led by the Spirit, to protect yourself is great. But I am not willing to put my head in the sand and be totally afraid of something with broad uses for good.

I am working on making sure I balance my life. I am trying to be at tune with the Spirit to make sure I make wise choices. And I am enjoying my time with social media when it makes my life richer and better.

Just my .02.
Aaron
June 23rd, 2010 @ 11:28 am

Great! Now everyone knows I write family letters! I’m SO offended! Just kidding, Jen.

I was actually pointed towards the article by a girl I baptized 10 years ago now living in Arizona. She closed down her FB account as a result of the article, citing the need to spend more time with family and less time with the cyber “family.”

There is a good and bad argument to be made with pretty much anything. I certainly don’t advocate extremist responses. Men are instructed sufficiently to know good from evil. The internet can be as powerful a tool for righteousness as it can be for evil – which is why I said, “Stay grounded.”

By the way, I feel like I’ve just interupted a Relief Society meeting. So I’ll be leaving now.
Kaimi
June 23rd, 2010 @ 11:30 am

I hope it’s okay if I post a comment, being a guy not related to Jenny.

I can see the concern. People do hook up with internet connectees, all the time. I think too that it may be an especially big danger with under-socialized Mormon housewives who get no meaningful opposite gender contact for a decade and then suddenly see the boy they liked in high school. That can lead to relationship meltdowns and really bad fallout. It’s not a completely overblown fear.

I’ve seen other suggestions along these lines, and this post is about the most sane articulation of the idea that I’ve seen. Jenny doesn’t call others to repentance, say that Facebook is of the devil, or the like.

Still, I’m ambivalent. I don’t want to tell any particular person how to run her life. But I’m worried that this taps into a vein of Mormon thought that’s problematic in a lot of ways. Most importantly, it doesn’t count the cost of cutting off contact from other people. In doing so, I think that it makes (or at least accepts) a set of assumptions about women’s roles. Women are in the house, and generally not talking with men with whom they aren’t related, and introducing facebook would upset this equilibrium. In contrast, men go to work and interact with women at their jobs.

When women are put into restricted cloisters (for their own good, of course) it inevitably limits them in serious and important ways. And I’m worried that creating a community norm of non-contact (I’m not sure whether that was Jenny’s intent, but people may take that from her post) could limit women who are (1) not going to hook up with Danny from high school, and who (2) would benefit from professional or personal development contact with at least some men they know.
Jess
June 23rd, 2010 @ 11:38 am

I love all these different takes! I agree that I NEED socialization. It helps me keep my needs it check. I go a little crazy when my hubby *finally* gets home from work. Being connected to others through email, phone calls, and sometimes facebook can help me stabilize my craziness.

It’s hard to know when you’re on the right path or not – I have friends that never spend time with their kids because of socializing, which is another very real and potential hazard of facebook. (I say as I listen to my baby waking up in the monitor.)

All being said, the only REAL thing that will protect each of us is listening to the spirit. It’s hard, in many ways, to make sure you’re always in tune, but none of us will be able to decide for others what will keep them safe from harm.
Janelle
June 23rd, 2010 @ 11:55 am

Does anyone have access to their husband’s facebook account? I don’t use facebook very much, but my husband has enjoyed keeping in contact with friends we’ve moved away from. We have full access to each other’s accounts.

Last week, I saw a friend request on my husband’s account from a woman I didn’t know who had only a bra on in her profile picture. I immediately unfriended her. I guess I have a “No shirt, No shoes, No Service” policy for my husband’s facebook account. That same day I told my husband about my deletion of the friend request and he said it was most likely a troller, and was glad I unfriended her. Did I overstep my bounds?

I would prefer he had no female friends on facebook, but most of the women he does have are my best girlfriends who know my husband is more likely to update his facebook account than I am. That doesn’t mean I’m naive enough to think that inappropriate relationships don’t happen between family friends. I know they do.

We are both getting an onslaught of friend requests from ward and stake members. How should we handle that? I like the same gender only policy for facebook, but these are people I know and trust in person and ask me why I haven’t be friended them yet when I see them in person.

Anyways, what are some other solutions you all have come up with that do include both genders? We may still decide to have same sex (aside from family) accounts but I think this is a great discussion every couple should have.

Thanks,

Confused in CA.
Amira
June 23rd, 2010 @ 1:36 pm

Kaimi outlined my concerns very well. I don’t have any problem with people choosing to do things differently that I do. I just don’t want to see that community norm of non-contact that Kaimi writes about, and recently it seems there has been a bit of a move toward that norm.

Both my husband and I have real and virtual friendships with people of the opposite gender and those associations have benefitted us in a variety of ways. I can think of several specific situations where help, encouragement, or advice has come from one of our friends of the opposite gender that couldn’t have come from any other source. I think the benefits for us have far outweighed the possible dangers.
hkobeal
June 23rd, 2010 @ 1:44 pm

I definitely have male friends, neighbors, co-workers, students, ward members, and yes, male Facebook friends. I do not worry at all about crossing a line in those relationships. My husband and I do not share e-mail accounts or facebook pages. We are responsible, independents adults. We don’t tell each other that we can/can’t interact with XYZ person, either on-line or face to face. My job is not to control my spouse, and I know with every fiber of my being that it’s not my husband’s job to control me.

I just read the talk and honestly don’t see why/how people read it and thought that Bednar was suggesting that we shouldn’t have mixed-gender FB friends–or in real life friends, for that matter. Is there a particular line I’m missing?
Sue
June 23rd, 2010 @ 1:48 pm

This is an interesting topic.

Facebook has helped us find ward members that we’d lost track of for years. It’s been wonderful to reconnect. I’ve also found old friends from former neighborhoods and a few from high school. Great networking, too.

I’m pretty selective about the people I “friend” on Facebook. They have to feel like more than acquaintances to me, or I don’t go there.

For myself, I see no reason to remove any of the men I’ve friended; I know myself well, and the possibility of becoming involved with someone other than my husband is a non-issue. Accordingly, I neither seek nor avoid male friends. But I do choose them carefully, just as I do my female friends.

I will say that if an old boyfriend approached me, I would probably not respond. Not because I’d be afraid of rekindling the romance, but out of respect for my husband.

Also (though I’m a bit past this happening at my advanced age!), if I had a sense a man asking to be my friend was romantically interested in me, even slightly, I would not friend him.

=)
Strollerblader
June 23rd, 2010 @ 2:04 pm

Ha! I was just talking to friends about this yesterday: One of the things I like best about FB is that I can be friends again with my guy friends from my single years. It’s a safe way, because everything is posted out in public on our walls. I find it similar to talking to a man at church — we are in a public place, so that helps insure safety and propriety. Now, if I was having repeated conversations at church with a man, where we stepped off into a classroom and talked for long spans of time ( or if I were ‘chatting’ with a male friend on FB), then that would be running risks.

However, there are also times when having long, intimate even, conversations with a man alone at church is quite appropriate, when he’s your priesthood leader and your conversations are appropriate. Same goes for FB chats. I have also had several chats at length with my home teacher on FB, when the things I need to discuss with him are private, and instead of emailing, we can ‘chat’ on FB in real time.

Generally, I treat my opposite sex Facebook friendships the same way I do my real life, face-to-face friendships. If it’s not OK to discuss or do in public, or in an interview situation, then it’s just not OK.
Dovie
June 23rd, 2010 @ 2:12 pm

I really love FB. For me keeping friendly tabs on friends and family near and far is wonderful.

I don’t ever play games or take quizzes on FB. I make sure that I know people in real life with a few careful exceptions. As far as male FB friends usually I don’t friend them unless I am FB friends with their wife and actually would count them a neighborhood or ward friend and not just an aquaintence. I am friends with our former bishop and his wife. I am friends with a member of our stake presidency and his wife. One of my hometeachers is too elderly to be on this new fangled internet and the other is my FB friend, he has even confirmed hometeaching appointments via FB and email. His wife is not on FB so she is not my FB friend but she is my wonderful visiting teacher and that is way better than FB any day.

My husband and I know all the passwords to all of our online accounts email, FB, etc. Not because we are particularly worried about each other but it is a transparency thing. There is a forum that he participates in that for a while I wasn’t invited to. That bothered me. When he found out it bothered me he made took steps so that I was invited. I don’t really participate in it now but it was the principle of the thing and I could participate if I wanted to.

I think we need to let our best judgement and Spirit guide us. For example I have a friend that had a real problem with pornography. (He and his wife are very good friends of myself and my husband.) This friend even avoids museums because any type of the human form nude potentially presents a problem for him. It was a decision he made based on his personal situation and history. Kind of like the Anti-Nephi-Lehi’s burying their swords. Swords are not the problem and were not inherently evil but their history and individual weakness and repentance process were. I think the same could be said about the internet and social media. There are some people and some situations that it may be just inadvisable to participate with or in it at all.

I know that the Church uses social media to spread the gospel. I know they have a person that that is their job. They manage the church’s social media ventures and presence.

My non-member husband just completed a contracting job for the Church, developing a Blackberry scripture app. Normally the church wouldn’t pay for contractors to do this kind of thing but they wanted to get it out fast. Yesterday was his last day and now that the basic functionality it there someone will get it ready to release. It made me happy to think of that for the last few weeks. He joked that the beta tester list for the different platform apps would be the only place that his name and certain members of the twelve would appear at the same time.

For lent it seemed all the rage in my neighborhood to give something up. My husband gave up soda I gave up the internet and blogs (even reading Segullah) before 1:00 p.m. and the completion of my chores and then only for a limited amount of time. Doesn’t seem like a big thing but it was tough for me. I think it helped to change my perspective and reorder my priorities a little bit. I no longer have the prohibition but I spend much less time online.

Anyway interesting post something to think about. I don’t think I will be un-friending my male FB friends anytime soon but as with everything in my life using my brain being a little bit wary and taking taking counsel from the Spirit seems to be the best course.
Strollerblader
June 23rd, 2010 @ 2:16 pm

As for who I friend and who I unfriend: For past romantic-interests or just people who I want to just see ‘what they’re up to now’ from, I friend them, then I unfriend them 2 or 3 weeks later (I write it on my calendar to remind me). This way, we both get a chance to get a glimpse into each other’s current lives and see where we’re at, but then I just close the door again by unfriending them and avoiding any inappropriateness or awkwardness, for that matter.

I also have a “personal space” thing that determines whether I will friend someone or not. If they live physically close to me, then they have to be people that I have a close relationship to — people who I would actually talk to and tell the stuff I post to FB. In other words, not all ward members make the cut. It’s not because I don’t want to get status updates from them, but because I don’t want *my* status updates going to them — they don’t need to know all of the personal details of my life.

On the other hand, the farther away (physically) I live from someone, the ‘looser’ I am with whether I will friend them or not.
Michelle L.
June 23rd, 2010 @ 2:30 pm

loved your post Jenny. I believe we have to constantly reevaluate our online habits.

Maybe I see Facebook differently than some? For me it’s just an easy way to contact people. I don’t check it regularly, but I love that I only need someone’s name (and not their email address) to find them.

It’s a great tool for planning gatherings and a great neutral place to contact my ex-sister in law.
Angela
June 23rd, 2010 @ 2:47 pm

Kaimi articulated my thoughts on this issue well, too. Although it might be prudent for some to limit their Facebook (and other online) interactions to people of the same gender, for others it might be unnecessary to be so sweeping. For me, the internet has helped foster professional relationships with men that have been helpful in my writing career, for example. My early participation in the AML-list(an email list for the Association for Mormon Letters that was particularly active back before blogs really took off) helped lay the foundation for many of my opportunities as a writer, editor, and teacher. I’ve had, and continue to have, many good conversations with LDS women AND men who share my interest in literature, and this has enriched my life in many positive ways, especially since I’m essentially a stay-at-home mom with few options for professional networking.

That said, just as my husband needs to understand where to draw the line with women at work, I’m also responsible to know where to draw the line in these online relationships. But cutting myself off from ever interacting with men on Facebook, or on a blog, or on an email list, would diminish my life and hamper my career in ways that don’t really seem necessary if I’m making sure that I don’t cross any lines. And I do think I know where those lines are and how to avoid crossing them.

At some point, we need to be able to trust ourselves and our spouses, yes? I’m all for reasonable lines-in-the-sand—those are definitely necessary!—but at what point does well intentioned partitioning of the sexes turn into women wearing veils and not being able to move about unescorted in public? And I’m not saying unfriending opposite gendered friends on Facebook is at all synonymous with that kind of repression. But the path to female subjugation and silencing can be (and definitely has been) paved with good intentions.
Suzette
June 23rd, 2010 @ 3:04 pm

An interesting discussion. I’m on the pro-facebook side of things. It works well in my life and LOVE keeping up with friends and family through this medium.

And just a comment about “de-friending” female friends – online and in real life. I am a single woman and have always been active in church. I have single male friends and married male friends and female friends.

Because I do not have a husband or children and live far from my own extended family, I rely on my friendships in times of fun, sorrow, happiness, and indecision. I am grateful for the many husband/wife friends who have opened their homes to me and supported and loved me.

There have been times when certain friends choose to “de-friend” me because I am a single women – and it’s hard. I support families and eternal companionships, so I support those decisions – but at times I feel boxed out.

My .02 on “de-friending”: if you decide it’s necessary, do it gentley and be sensitive.
Kathryn Soper
June 23rd, 2010 @ 3:35 pm

Suzette, that’s preposterous and incredibly sad. Do Mormons really believe that such shunning is necessary to support families and eternal companionships? I’m afraid many of us do.
mom o' boys
June 23rd, 2010 @ 4:42 pm

Very interesting discussion. I have chosen to not join Facebook simply because I feel overwhelmed by the thought of having so many people from my past try to connect…I am a person who feels much more comfortable with just a few friends at any time. I do enjoy reading blogs…both of friends and strangers and have found myself sometimes getting sucked into the blogging-sphere to the point of neglecting my real life. Before I can read NieNie’s online story (which is beautiful and inspiring by the way), then I had better look at my own personal life and see if there are people I know who need help and compassion rather than someone I don’t know who lives thousands of miles away. I need to spend time with people right here, in my home and neighborhood and ward. That is where my life is, and blogging should not take more than a small part of that away.
CatherineWO
June 23rd, 2010 @ 4:52 pm

My husband and I are both on FB because our (adult) children are on there. They keep in touch with each other this way, post pictures and comments about events in their lives. So it’s very much a family place for us. I have male and female friends of all ages. One thing I did do a couple of months ago was turn off the chat capability on my FB page. The chatting seemed so intrusive. If I want to talk to someone, I’ll call them on the phone.

The only person I have ever defriended on FB is a priesthood leader in our stake who used FB to preach and denounce things that people did–not only inappropriate but using his position in an abusive way. Since then I have not been willing to add any LDS men as friends.
Jenny
June 23rd, 2010 @ 4:55 pm

Just checking back in–a good discussion, and I just wanted to clarify a couple of things, for the record. Kaimi’s comment brings up a valid point, although he mentioned being worried that a post like this might encourage creating a community norm of non-contact. This certainly was not my intent, nor did I even want to imply it. Many of us work and/or have professional relationships with people of the opposite gender. I value the varied relationships I have in real life–I do have a job and enjoy the interactions I have with people outside of being in my home. I would encourage a variety of social contacts whether professionally or recreationally just to maintain a healthy social compatibility in life generally.

Speaking to my decision to un-friend unrelated males on FB, it was a decision, based on the way I use facebook (sporadically and mainly as a social network), that helped me solve any current or future issues about what might or might not be or even appear to be appropriate. I like the idea of making a decision ahead of time; no doubt or questions when a question arises, and that avoids any problem in the future.

I appreciate Suzette’s comment about having sensitivity when this kind of a decision is made, to avoid a sweeping rejection that might be misunderstood.
Jenny
June 23rd, 2010 @ 5:01 pm

Also, to mom-o-boys, I really did NOT have a desire to join FB, altho I do enjoy social contact and interaction generally. I joined under a fake name at first, just with the intent of being able to monitor my child’s account. My sister and a few friends kept encouraging me just to be out in the open with my account, and I relented. Altho’ the contact with people I might otherwise not have had any interaction with has been fun, it really has not led to any deeper relationships than what were left as they were in the past, and I am fine with that. I enjoy the face-to-face, and do not feel any obligation whatsoever to maintain virtual friendships with people who are not already my friend in person on a fairly regular basis.
Stef
June 23rd, 2010 @ 7:48 pm

I don’t think you should have de-friended your male FB friends. That sounds like a knee-jerk reaction if there ever was one. Maybe you could have mulled it over for a few days?

I think it’s sad that you feel you have to shelter yourself that way. Come out into the world–the more you deal with reality the better prepared you will be to deal with real problems.
m2theh
June 23rd, 2010 @ 9:08 pm

I am facebook friends with a couple of old boyfriends, and my husband is friends with a couple of old girlfriends. It doesn’t bother me, and it doesn’t bother him. I don’t think just because you occasionally comment on old friends activities, or even have short chats with them that you are going to run away with that person.

If you don’t do anything else but talk to one particular person on-line, then that is an issue. But it all comes down to if you are capable of having non-romantic relationships with other people. Some people can, some can’t.
Kristin
June 23rd, 2010 @ 9:23 pm

Thanks for a thought-provoking post. I appreciate the way you brought an important issue up for discussion.

I am not a fan of FB. I’m not on it, and don’t want to be. The people I care about I am in contact with and for me the benefit of being on FB does not outweigh the time it would take away from more important things in my life. I have a blog so our far-away family and friends can see what is going on if they want to. That works for me. (Of course, in a few years down the line when my children are old enough to have accounts, you better believe I’ll suddenly find the motivation to sign right up.

I think what I take from Elder Bednar’s comments the most, is that we need to be very conscious of our use of the internet. We should be prayerful and thoughtful about it, and be wise in setting appropriate boundaries for ourselves.

And, I would add, we should respect others as they try to follow the spirit and place boundaries of safety in their lives. Our boundaries will not all look the same, and that is okay.

I did not appreciate the previous comment which seemed to belittle Jenny for her choice. Her choice may not be right for someone else, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t right for her.
Jenny
June 24th, 2010 @ 6:31 am

Stef,
I actually mulled-over my FB decision for more than a few weeks. I had conversations about it with my husband and others whose opinions I value.
It was not a knee-jerk reaction, and conversely to what you may think, I drink up the reality of living largely in the world.
It’s the virtual world I’m trying to be wary of.
Naismith
June 24th, 2010 @ 7:18 am

All my Facebook friends are real current friends and family. When we were in Southeast Asia, email did not work but Facebook did. Every few days we would find a hotspot and check in, and since our time zones were 13 hours apart from most of our children, it was a great convenience to see things that way while they slept, rather than try to negotiate a phone call.

We found out that one of our children had taken a job in another city and would be moved by the time we returned.

My daughter who got us started on Facebook made the transition from a blog because she felt it was a safer environment to post things about her children.
Naismith
June 24th, 2010 @ 7:50 am

I was really struck by the obsession with people of the opposite gender. I served with a Primary president and friend who decided she was a lesbian, so I am not sure that someone’s gender is the most important thing.

One of my best friends is a male, and one of the key “lines” for me is that we NEVER complain about our spouses. And in that regard, it is a healthier relationship than a lot of female-female relationships that do feel they have the right to talk about their spouses.
Jeff
June 24th, 2010 @ 7:54 am

What do I think of cyberrelationships? I *love* them. My first one was with a Latter-day Saint that I met online in 1990. Our cyberromance led to my taking the missionary discussions and being baptized into the Church. Seven years later, we were married.

After almost eight years of marriage and just as long trying to have children, we met a young, expectant mother online who chose us to parent her unborn daughter. Without this cyberrelationship, we would never have been parents.

Now as we wait to adopt our third living child, the Internet has come to our rescue again. We are talking with a wonderful young woman who found our online profile and seems fairly certain that we are to be her baby’s parents. Things can certainly change, but even if she doesn’t wind up picking us, I am 99% sure our next child will come from the womb of someone we have met online.

Finally, I work from home. At least 95% of my contact with clients is via chat programs, and the computer where I do most of my work is 550 miles from my home. I also take the opportunity to share the gospel with my clients as often as opportunity permits, and at least two of these clients will be attended a temple open house within the next year—their first contact with the Church, save the fact that they know me.

In short, everything that is good in both my mortal and Eternal life is the direct result of cyberrelationships, and I am no wusing cyberrelationships to give others that same blessing.

To each their own, but I’m-a-keepin’ my Facebook friends.
Jeff
June 24th, 2010 @ 7:56 am

oops… *attending.
Jeff
June 24th, 2010 @ 7:56 am

oops again… *now using. Can’t type today. :-B
Ashley
June 24th, 2010 @ 9:19 am

I am an aspiring communications professional–and a self-proclaimed fun, single socialite –and I recently had to come to terms that my industry has moved towards more social networking as an acceptable form of business communication. Several industries are moving towards online communication as well. Through experience I have realized that I can give as much or as little control to these resources as I desire; I can let them control me, or I can control and make them work to my benefit, both professionally and personally. It is so important for users–parents, children, business professionals, adults–of all ages to recognize this. We must be safe, be willing to learn what is going on around us in the world and to take precautions as to what we share or do not share to maintain fidelity in our lives.

We are admonished to “live in the world, but not of the world.” There is a fine balance here when it comes to our virtual lives. If left unchecked or unguarded it will destroy our minds, our lives and our relationship with the Savior.
Karen
June 24th, 2010 @ 10:47 am

I am a single woman in my mid-30s. Most of my coworkers are married men. I socialize with them quite a bit, and I feel like they are good friends. But after reading this post and these comments, and finding out how concerned married people are about online relationships with members of the opposite sex (something I honestly had not ever thought about before), I have to wonder if I am doing the right thing in being friends with my co-workers. I’ve met their wives and I’ve been invited to their homes, but are they okay that we go out to lunch sometimes? I’m not attractive so I don’t think it’s a problem, but I have to wonder if perhaps I should do the real world version of unfriending them. This makes me very sad.
Ashley
June 24th, 2010 @ 11:01 am

When I wrote my earlier comment I was trying to find this article I read recently. I finally found it again: “Why Facebook Can’t Genuinely Connect People” http://mashable.com/2010/06/17/facebook-connect-fail/

To Karen: I am in a similar situation, just 1 of 2 women in an office of 25 men (only 2 are not yet married). My personal choice has been to still be friends with them at work, with their wives outside of work, but not engaging in much–if any–”facebooking” activities. We use Facebook a lot for work-related purposes and client marketing, so we are all connected professionally. You can choose with whom you interact directly, and what groups/lists of friends you publicly share information with through status updates, etc. Just a thought.

Also… regardless of what you think of yourself, all women are “attractive.” Here’s is some of my personal journey of learning to love myself and who I am:
Part 1:http://asholina.blogspot.com/2009/03/big-bold-beautiful.html

Part II: http://asholina.blogspot.com/2010/05/big-bold-beautiful-part-deus.html

I know I don’t know you, but I think you’re beautiful.
Stef
June 24th, 2010 @ 11:19 am

Okay, you thought about it for awhile. I get that. But I don’t understand the EXTREME reaction. If you want to unfriend people, that’s fine, but to do it on the basis that you did is–am I allowed to say this–silly? You’re going to eliminate a group of people because of some potential for temptation? If I eliminated everything in my life that had the potential to end bad, I’d have to give up movies, books, and driving. After all, they could lead to improper thoughts, actions, and car accidents.
melissa
June 24th, 2010 @ 11:29 am

We did the same thing for blocking internet access. Our only child is one but there is always a temptation to myself or husband to look at things that may not be appropriate. I’ve not ever had a problem with that but that’s not to say it couldn’t happen accidentally. It seems kind of extreme to use a blocker on our computers as well as phones, but my husband had the idea because why take a chance. We both feel that it’s better to be safe than sorry. As far as facebook stuff goes, if there is contact with someone of the opposite sex, especially an ex, we always talk about it and make sure that it’s nothing over the line, which it never has been. We both have friends of the opposite sex and don’t want to end those friendships but we make sure that they are appropriate and that both partners feel okay with the contact made.
Naismith
June 24th, 2010 @ 11:35 am

“I’ve met their wives and I’ve been invited to their homes, but are they okay that we go out to lunch sometimes?’

I would say that is a case-by-case basis. Most of the time, I think such friendships are fine and enrich our lives.

I have had business lunches that were 1-on-1 with a male editor or something. But for routine fun lunches, I try to do it in a group, protects everybody.

And part of the decision is what is going on in the back of one’s head, which of course varies from person to person. My good friend who happens to be male, there is no potential lust. When people suggest that risk, my reaction is “Ew!!” Like the idea of a brother. If there was an attraction at all, I wouldn’t be as comfortable with him.

And I don’t believe that you are not attractive. Possibly in need of the perfect makeover:) But a happy person radiates an aura that is attractive, even though their nose might be too big or eyes different sizes or whatever.
Jess
June 24th, 2010 @ 11:50 am

Karen –

I love that my husband will be kind to everyone around him at work, not just the other married guys. I’m ok with him going out to lunch with other women, and emailing with old friends that are women. He’s a nice guy, and I want to support him being that.

I remember when I was single and working, it was hard because I sometimes would feel left out of the office social time because our our married vs. non-married status. I agree that it is a case by case basis. Just like I don’t seek to be friends with those I don’t enjoy the company of, you shouldn’t have to bend your friendships towards only single’s.
Jenny
June 24th, 2010 @ 12:32 pm

Karen,
I think it’s wonderful that you have good relationships with your co-workers, male and female. Knowing when a relationship crosses the line, which several have mentioned already seems to be the key. Living by the Spirit. I would be sad if you un-friended your married co-workers just on the premise that being single makes mingling with marrieds taboo. Not so. I know that my husband has business lunches (and dinners) with females, married and single, and it would be ludicrous to suggest avoiding lunch because of paranoia over the gender/marital status issue.

Stef, maybe the trick is knowing that for you, that solution would be extreme. Like I said, I would never tell someone else to un-friend anyone. For me, it works and I’m good with it.

Ashley-re fine balance. Well said.
Carrie
June 24th, 2010 @ 2:40 pm

This might be related, might seem to be not very related.

My husband and I share email and fb accounts. Our ‘name’ on facebook is both of our names. People think its weird, and its funny because any time someone goes to chat with us, they have to ask who it is. So I’ve chatted with old high school buddies of his, and he’s talked with girl friends of mine. So the ex girlfriends and boyfriends (actually, we aren’t friends with any of them… well one, but she’s a mutual acquaintance now) wouldn’t DARE start up an inappropriate convo if they knew the spouse was on the other end… and neither would a member of the opposite gender for that matter, old friend or current ward member.

I get tired, though, of fence sitters- people who are desperately trying to keep one toe ‘of the world’ and rationalize things when really, like Joseph, we should RUN AWAY. (not that I think FB is something we need to run away from OR that anyone on here is trying to keep one toe ‘of the world’… PLEASE don’t jump all over me) I heard Richard G Scott say at a fireside that the point was to be all the way on the Lord’s side, far from the side of Satan, not flirting somewhere in the middle (not that fb users aren’t righteously on the Lord’s side…).

That being said, there is a great talk from L Tom Perry about the phrase “in the world, not of the world”. He talks about how we focus A LOT on the ‘not of the world’ part, but we forget that we still need to be ‘in the world’. It is in the world that we share the gospel. (Ensign May 1988) Its a great talk.

So basically, I don’t know where I stand on cyber relationships, because I see it both ways. Just wanted to add a little more ‘food for thought’.
Naismith
June 25th, 2010 @ 7:17 am

“…wouldn’t DARE start up an inappropriate convo if they knew the spouse was on the other end…”

I think the key to a healthy opposite-gender relationship is that all your interactions are carried off AS IF the other spouse was on the other end.

No, I don’t address all my correspondence to both the husband and wife. She wouldn’t understand the technical stuff from the career that I share with her husband, and she hasn’t read the books we’re discussing.

But the tone and manner of the conversation is as if she was there–except that if she *was* there, of course it would be rude to talk about things in which she has no interest, so we wouldn’t.

And that’s why we have the relationship, because we have common interests we share, that our respective spouses do not. And it is not a bad thing to have a different career than one’s spouse, and to read books that they do not.

Although for Father’s Day I did give my spouse a book that I had previously read with my friend. One of the many ways our friendship enriches my marriage.
Natasha
June 27th, 2010 @ 7:28 pm

Wow. This was an interesting read. And exasperating.

This whole thread of comments reminds me of one of my biggest pet peeves in the church: We preach behaviour, behaviour, behaviour, without giving people the tools to figure out how have proper behaviour when it’s hard, when there’s temptation, when we have deep-seated needs from childhood (many, if not most, of us do).

So Bednar gives this talk and doesn’t talk about the underlying reasons for why these people spent their entire lives online. (If I remember correctly. I haven’t heard the talk in a while but it was drummed into our stake over and over again last year.)( And note that he was really focusing on things like Second Life.)

If we were to make a comparison between the church and psychology, the church uses behaviour therapy almost to the exclusion of everything else. And maybe this comes from the idea that we teach people correct principles and let them govern themselves. Except the problem with this is that behaviour therapy does not have long-lasting results. When people do go about trying to govern themselves based on principles, without understanding how to implement those principles, without understanding themselves and their own make-up and feelings, they fail and then the church does a splendid job of making them feel guilty and overwhelmed. So, they go to General Conference and hear stories of other people’s failures or they hear statistics that make them feel ashamed because maybe they fit into that statistic too, or they have some similarities to the people who were chastised in the G.A.’s story and they are shamed into changing. So, they pull themselves up by their bootstraps, dig their feet in, another cliché here, and go at living these commandments and policies and standards with dogged determination that eventually runs out, and then we start the whole process over again.

What I see sorely lacking is cognitive therapy. We focus soooo little on psychology in the church.

So, for example, we say that gossip is bad. Then we give a little analogy about leaves and how they are hard to collect once the wind blows. Then we might tell as story about a ward that was very gossipy. Then we might share some scriptures about love. The end. And the listeners are left with knowledge that gossiping is bad and hurts people and they should not do it because it’s bad and hurts people. The problem is, they already know that. We all know this. So, why do we still gossip? BECAUSE we feel badly about ourselves. We want to feel like we’re better than other people and we want the people around us to also know that we’re better than other people. So, is the real problem gossip? Or is it a lack of self-worth?

WHY does the church not talk about this more? The talks I hear about self-esteem are always focused on looks, about whether or not we’re really keeping the commandments or are close to the spirit, and whether or not we’re comparing ourselves. But my personal experience and my experience with other people, as well as eighteen years of self-help reading has taught me that self-esteem issues usually start in childhood. Most things start in childhood.

Whether or not you will start up an inappropriate relationship with someone not your spouse is directly related to how happy you are with yourself, how happy your are with your spouse, and how much love, understanding, attention, empathy, and guidance you got as a child. If you think that you are at risk for this kind of temptation, sure, put up boundaries that make things easier for you. But don’t do this thinking that you’ve solved the problem. You’ve likely only delayed the temptation. If we’re going to embrace this idea that Satan knows you and your weaknesses, putting up boundaries only means that he will find another way to come at you. Eliminate the weaknesses and it won’t matter if you have Facebook friends or friends at church or if you have a cute dentist or whatever.

If you find a temptation, that could be a good thing. Now you know you have a weakness and you can turn it into a strength. You can do more than just willfully avoid sinning so that you can slide into CK home plate, then collapse with relief that you made it– you can change who you are and become something strong and permanent.

I believe that our church would have more success with its members if we used less shame and offered more empathy. Empathy opens people up to admitting they have problems because it keeps their self-esteem intact. We need to emphasise therapy and fixing the real problems that fuel behaviour. We need to teach people how to be in touch with their feelings and know what they mean.

I believe that if we do this, we won’t have to stress about fine-tuning all the little rules in our lives and comparing our rules to other people’s rules and how righteous we appear in comparison.
becky
June 27th, 2010 @ 9:15 pm

Important points. Balance in our lives is so important. I personally enjoy a quick blog update each day as long as checking in with others … not a FB fan (as a therapist unfortunately seen the negative impact it can have) — although I know it has much good. If anything is taking us away from our top priorities of our faith and family then it is not healthy for us.
Olive
June 28th, 2010 @ 4:19 am

Oh man…all I can think is how this is going to turn into the next new ‘commandment’ like not watching Rated R (or PG-13) movies, or drinking caffeinated soda pop, or not reading Harry Potter.

I agree that the internet has uses for evil, just as much as for good. But I think deleting all male friends is too much.

My husband and I have separate e-mails, accounts, etc, but we both know each others’ passwords. Not because we sit around checking up on each other 24/7, but like someone else said above…for transparency. It has made me think twice in the things I say online…would I want my husband to read this?

I do think we should avoid temptation, but we also need to trust our spouses. I also agree that FB is so useful in social networking for careers, etc. Cutting women (or men) off from that is so hurtful.

At some point we need to realize that if we have boundaries, we aren’t going to fall into bed with someone. That means when the little red flag pops up, we cease and desist. That doesn’t mean we build a fortress between us and everything in existence. People who cheat on their spouses will do so whether they are online or not. They cheat because they ignore the red flag…not because they simply encounter someone of the opposite sex.
Olive
June 28th, 2010 @ 4:27 am

Adding to the above ‘commandments’…not having a beard or mustache, wearing only white dress shirts to church, and not allowing your kids to have sleep-overs.

I’m starting to feel the pharisees…worrying about every little step and misstep or the world will end.
Sherry
June 28th, 2010 @ 9:14 pm

I read that article a couple of weeks ago, and my main takeaway was that I need to step away from the computer more often and live in the real world a bit more. It really didn’t make me think twice about my FB relationships.

But THIS post did. I think it’s time for me to do another purge of my “friends.” Not necessarily to get rid of all males or all married males, but just to make sure the people I’m connected with are people I actually care about.

P.S. Jenny, you are so tactful, and I love it!
Muhammad Morgan
June 30th, 2010 @ 8:43 am

i just thought that married life is the happiest point of my life.’.:
Jen
June 30th, 2010 @ 10:06 am

Wow. Olive and Natasha, I completely agree. Completely and utterly.

After reading (and skimming) these comments, I have to say that I believe that how we react to the cyber-opportunities in our lives is a completely individual decision. Whether it is unfriending members of the opposite sex on FB, what types of websites we access or simply how much time we spend on the computer it is a personal decision. What is a temptation to one is not necessarily a temptation to another.

I feel deeply that the amount of time we spend involved in cyber-opportunities (not necessarily infidelity or socializing, but whatever we may be involved in…gaming included) is directly related to what kind of needs we have at that point in our life. I find that my computer habits wax and wane, depending on the season.

Speaking from experience (but not wanting to give too much away) I am a statistic. I was faced with a cyber-challenge and I gave in. It was a poor decision, one I should never have had to make. But, and this may not make any sense, it was also a decision that I wouldn’t change if I had to make it again. I wouldn’t trade it for the world…because it caused so much beauty to appear in my life. Beauty through the arts, beauty through self discovery, beauty through change and strengthening the unchangeable. Beauty through my relationship with my Savior. Yes, it was very bad at times and, like any monstrously poor decision, it filled my life with sorrow for a while. However, looking back, I believe it was necessary and unavoidable. I’m sure that I would have found some other way to do what I was doing. Computer or not. I take full responsibility for it.

My actions were a reflection of what was happening in my life at that time. So I agree, that we need to be more discerning about what would be driving us to delve into these computer-induced situations.

I’m not saying that we should take opportunities online as an excuse for bad behavior, there is no excuse. What I am saying is that with wisdom and insight we can see the value of what is presented to us online. If we listen closely to those things that seem “off” to us, it may be a signal of what needs some dire attention in our reality. Then we can work on what needs to be fixed instead of sweeping everything under the rug, again. And again. And again.

Bravo, Jenny! This is important stuff.