Tales of three women

Posted by Dalene | December 29, 2009 | 104 Comments

Some time ago I read about a Relief Society presidency that actually had to debate over whether or not to take food in to a sister in their ward—a sister under their stewardship—who was recovering from surgery. Why the big to-do? Because her surgery had been “elective.”

Today I express my gratitude to three very brave women who have agreed to share their own very personal stories on the subject of so-called “elective” or “cosmetic” surgery. I bring you their stories not because I am an advocate for any procedure, but because I believe in agency.

My hope is that sharing stories will build a bridge of understanding between women who don’t simply have differing opinions, but who also have different experiences. And perhaps one less sister will have to hide her choice or her recovery from her visiting teachers, her Relief Society presidency or her friends.

I
I had a breast augmentation. I did it because I wanted to feel and look more like a woman. Having always been completely flat chested, I had always wanted one. But I grew up thinking that anyone who did such things would go straight to hell. I know better now and I can say it’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I’d been married for about three years when I decided to look into the surgery. My husband was concerned with my safety, but during our initial appointment our questions were answered and his mind was at ease. As soon as the doctor put the gel insert in my bra I took one look in the mirror and wanted to march right down to the OR right then; but I had to wait for two weeks.

I was most nervous to tell my parents, my in-laws and one of my sisters, but I was surprised at how well it went. My mom had a few questions, but that was it. My dad doesn’t like to talk about female things, so he didn’t say anything. I made my husband tell my mother-in-law. She couldn’t believe I would do such a thing. It was easy for her though, since she and all my sisters-in-law are very well endowed. I think that was why my mother understood even when my mother-in-law could not.

As the surgery date approached, I was quite nervous. I was afraid if this were a bad choice I would probably die right there on the operating table. My husband, however, kept reassuring me that everything would be fine. On the day of the surgery my doctor came in and told me he liked to have a prayer with his patients before surgery. He prayed that all would go well and that I would be blessed with a complete recovery. That put my mind at ease.

My recovery went well after the first 24-hours, during which the pain meds made me sick to my stomach. After that I could hardly wait to go bra shopping—this time for a bra with an actual cup size. Three days later I did and for the first time ever I found bra shopping to be fun instead of humiliating. Victoria’s Secret was awesome!

I still don’t feel comfortable telling people about my surgery. One of my friends from high school was actually offended when I told her. But I do love to sit in on discussions in which women start talking about “What kind of woman would get a boob job?” I think to myself, “You have no idea. Women like me, a mom with five kids, who can finally wear a swimsuit without feeling self-conscious.” In fact, I kind of get excited about the whole thing. If any of my girls end up like me and one day wants to do the same thing, I will support her in her choice, be there for her and take care of her kids during the recovery.

II
In the past 6 weeks, I’ve lost 14 pounds and 7 inches. I cut out all soda, most sweets, upped my protein and lowered my carb intake. I am eating consciously and healthily for the first time in years. So why am I not shouting this from the streets? Because of this: Six weeks ago I had lap band surgery.

Lap band surgery is by no means a cure for being overweight. I spent over a year researching everything I could about the procedure. I knew if I were going to spend thousands of dollars out-of-pocket, I’d better be well informed. I studied people who’ve had the procedure and read about what worked and what didn’t. After much prayer, research and talks with my family, I decided to go for it. I realize losing weight will be something I struggle with my entire life. But for the first time, I feel hopeful and in control.

Why am I afraid to share this information? I realized the only people I’ve shared this with have met a certain criteria: a). they are close family or b). they have struggled with weight themselves. My family is awesome, supportive and encouraging. I wouldn’t have done it otherwise. The only others I’ve told are friends I know who have all struggled with weight loss. I have several thin friends who have never struggled with their weight. How could I begin to explain to them why I chose to have such a drastic procedure? I hear the words in my head now. “Just go to the gym”, “Join Weight Watchers”, or my favorite “You look fine.” (Please do not ever tell me I look fine. Its like saying “you look completely nondescript.”)

I realize I am judging thin people just as I fear they would judge me. Why do we do that? I am discriminating over whom I tell by how they look. When I discovered this prejudice, I started to wonder about other areas of my life in which I might judge others by thinking that they will judge me. I have to say, I didn’t like what I what I discovered.

So for the New Year, my goal will be to work on my own judgments. Really accept people, not by what I think they will do, but by who they really are.

III
When I exercise outside I don’t listen to music; I use that time to commune (with nature and with my thoughts) and to pray. One late spring day this year, as I was running on my favorite road (I know the exact spot), adoring the mountains, I was stopped in my tracks by a bolt of inspirational direction: “Your knees won’t hold out. You need to do something more or you won’t be able to do anything at all.” More? What more could I do? I had been exercising regularly, eating healthily, and working hard with a personal trainer. I had already participated in one triathlon a few weeks earlier and was preparing for the next one. Still, I was well aware that my knees creaked even walking up the stairs, and as I worked my muscles in training I often thought of the load around my waist and the strain that it must be putting on my legs, specifically my knees. One measure, considered in most circles to be extreme, to remedy this problem had come into my mind, but only casually. I thought if I ever went in that direction it would be way off in the future.

Or maybe not so far off.

When I got home I climbed the stairs to my bedroom, closed the door behind me, and knelt down beside my bed. “Heavenly Father, I heard that direction. I have an idea of what to do…” I began my research on abdominoplasty. I felt good about it. My second triathlon confirmed my feelings: my belly was a huge mass, in the way of even pedaling my bike effectively. Running was ridiculous with how top-heavy I was. I was a triathlete, yet people were constantly asking me when I was due. Again I knelt in prayer. “Heavenly Father, I’ve made a decision. Please help me to have confidence and know that it is the right thing to do.” He did. He let me know, and let my husband know. We decided to keep our decision private.

After my consultation with my surgeon, a date for surgery was set for three months out, and preparations were under way. One aspect of this situation was foremost in my mind: What to say, or not to say, to my children, particularly my daughters. Quickly I made the decision to not bother telling the 5-and-under crowd, as they wouldn’t remember this, but as for the 10 and 8 year olds…while I didn’t feel I needed to justify my actions to them, they certainly deserved an explanation as to why I wouldn’t be able to even lift anything over 5 lbs. for six weeks.

The night before the surgery, my husband and I sat down with our girls, individually and had near identical conversations with each. I asked them what I do each morning before they go to school (gym), and why (to be healthy). We discussed other aspects of health and taking care of our bodies, rote conversation for us. I then revealed that some of my muscles in my abdomen had become detached and so I would be having surgery to put my muscles back in place and therefore make my exercising more effective. (I did NOT say or suggest that this was a problem as a result of having children, as I felt these words would cause my children to think that somehow they were to blame for my being broken and therefore needing to be fixed, which of course is not the case.) The 8 year-old nodded and asked if she could go play. The 10-year-old asked if I was going to die, I answered no, and she asked if I would take her to Target.

Today I’m a little over 10 weeks post-surgery, and my recovery is going very well. I’m back to exercising each day, and I’m careful to listen to my body so as not to pull too much on muscles that feel like they’re working for the first time. I’m numb throughout my abdomen, which is normal – it can take 6 to 7 months for the feeling to return, and sometimes the feeling never completely returns. The swelling I have increases throughout the day. My scar is healing nicely, and my new belly button is off center. And just in case you’re wondering, I’m wearing size 14 jeans.

III has graciously agreed to respond to reader questions about her experience. If you have a question you’d like to ask, feel free to do so in the comments. I am quite aware of the sensitive and controversial nature of this subject (I read the comments in a prior post regarding this topic). Please be advised of our commenting policy and be respectful of these women and their right to choose this path for themselves.

They are some of my dearest friends.

Comments

104 Responses to “Tales of three women”

Naismith
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:31 am

Thanks to these women for sharing those stories. But to clarify, elective surgery is anything subject to choice. It is often a choice of surgery vs. drugs for a medical problem.

What is described here is actually aesthetic or cosmetic surgery, at least in I and III. (For II, it is often covered by insurance, because morbid obesity has so many other negative health consequences.)

Also, I don’t believe that the Relief Society should feel obligated to bring a meal in for any scheduled event, whether childbirth (especially when dad is taking time off, anyway, and/or family is coming) or a scheduled surgery (elective or not). If you know in advance, you can make plans. That’s part of preparedness and self reliance. Save the compassionate service folks for things that can’t be planned, like deaths and emergency surgeries and a birth that turns into C-section, etc.
courtney
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:39 am

I had elective plastic surgery when I was 19, and I rarely tell people about it. Mostly I’m afraid of how people will judge me for it without taking the time to understand why I did it. I spent over a year researching the surgery and had countless consultations with surgeons. I took the decision very seriously. The research I put into this taught me one very important thing: don’t judge people who have plastic surgery! I learned that people who have plastic surgery are often taking charge of their lives and changing something that will help give them more confidence, feel more like a woman, be healthier, or feel more normal. I am now 24, and I think having that surgery was one of the best things I have ever done. It increased my confidence and it improved my health.
I love this post. I am always so happy when people open up and discuss plastic surgery in a positive way– to discuss real women in real situations. Thank you for this great post!
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:41 am

This is all beside the point of my post, but I do not wish to quibble over semantics and I’m not stating that Relief Societies are obligated to do anything. But as a former compassionate service leader, I will share my personal belief about compassionate service:

In areas where one is in the habit of taking in meals as an act of compassionate service–as is the case in my particular ward–I do not believe that the apparent “worthiness” of the reason for surgery should ever be an issue. It’s not about the food–it’s about the act of service. We offer to take in meals because we can, because it’s an act of love. There should be no prerequisite for love.
Jenny
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:44 am

1 Samuel 16:7
…for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:48 am

Courtney–thank you so much for sharing a bit of your own story. I believe there are a lot of women in similar shoes and I love it when people feel safe enough to share the reality of their own lives. I think it brings us closer together.
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:05 am

Yonnondio–since semantics are apparently important to you, let me respectfully point out that there is also a big difference between a blog and a literary journal. There is also a big difference between thoughtfully and prayerfully choosing to have a single procedure and what you call “elective cosmetic surgery obsession.”

You may call me irresponsible if you’d like, but please don’t judge the motives of my friends.
Katie
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:18 am

It is so easy to judge women who have cosmetic surgery as being “vain” and “selfish.” Yet, every time I have actually gotten to know the story behind a person’s decision to get cosmetic surgery I have ended up feeling only empathy for their choice. The stigma against cosmetic surgery is so great (see Yonnondio’s comment) and the monetary and health costs are also so great, that for most regular women (and men) this cannot be a decision made lightly, and so should not be lightly condemned. Certainly there are cases of where cosmetic surgery is taken too far, but until you know the whole story (realizing you will probably never know the whole story) then I think you should probably just mind your own business.
Mary B
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:20 am

Interesting reading.

If a Relief Society presidency is debating whether or not to bring meals in for elective surgery the problem is not the nature of the surgery, it’s the fact that compassionate service in their lives has become a set routine response instead of a spiritually aware act of charity geared to the particular needs of a sister.

In the case of elective surgery, responsible visiting teachers and RS presidencies have plenty of time to thoughtfully interact with both the sister and the Holy Ghost to figure out, with that sister, what is most needful, what she can (self-sufficiently) arrange ahead of time, and what she cannot and will need help with.

When compassionate services has become an automatic response of three casseroles for every hospital visit, we’ve got problems.
Angela
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:30 am

Great post, Dalene. Thank you to your friends for their courage in sharing their stories. This can be such a touchy subject, but putting a human face on any controversial topic goes a long way toward fostering understanding. I also know from our last post on this topic that some Segullah readers (myself excluded) believe that plastic surgery should always, no matter the situation, be roundly condemned, and that sharing personal stories like this is “dangerous” because it might lead others to believe that plastic surgery is okay. I disagree, of course, and feel that one of Segullah’s great strengths is how it allows us to come to understand (and love) each other better by hearing the truth of other women’s lives and choices. So thank you for sharing this.
Millie
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:49 am

1 Samuel 16:7
…for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

And the Lord will look on these women’s hearts, and know the suffering, physical and emotional, that they went through before they elected to have these procedures done.

I know women who won’t pluck their eyebrows and have a hard time shaving their legs above their knees, because “That’s the way God made me.” God also made my garden full of weeds – does that mean I shouldn’t get out there with my hoe and do what I can to improve it?

If I could, I’d be in the OR having a breast reduction so fast, my head would spin.
Lindsay1138
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:04 am

I had surgery on my finger to deal with a crazy combination of 3 skin diseases. This condition had plagued me since I was 3 years old and was the second time I ended up having surgery on it. Basically, every 15 years I have to do this. I couldn’t use my hand for a week and couldn’t wash it for a month! I certainly could have used some meals from the Relief Society, but didn’t really think about calling them. We just ate pizza and cold cereal.

My 4 year old had elective surgery on her pinkies so they could grow straighter. Not required, not medically necessary, but if we didn’t intervene her fingers would continue to grow severely crooked and look deformed. We didn’t need meals brought in because she was 4 and her recovery wasn’t massive.

I personally feel that if the one having the surgery, elective, cosmetic or medically necessary is also the person who keeps the household running, it would certainly be great if someone dropped a meal or two off so they could focus on recovery instead of “what am I going to feed my family?”
La Yen
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:15 am

Thank you for this. I know that you are going to get soundly slapped all day/week/month by commenters. So good luck with being patient.

Here are my thoughts:
WHY IS THIS AN ISSUE?
If we truly believe that the Lord guides each of us personally and completely, who are we to judge another’s revelations? We should be thrilled that a sister in the gospel has enough faith to take a scary step that the Lord has encouraged her to take. And we should be equally thrilled and excited that the Lord loves each of us, and knows each of us SO personally that such “trivial” details of our lives (like our health or our deepest insecurities) are important to Him. Who is to say that one person’s “horrifying” procedure isn’t another’s decision to have a twelfth child or move to Pakistan? (Both things I find MUCH scarier “for my daughters” than the prospect of having surgery) Bottom line is, revelation is real, personal, and wonderful. Be happy for those who are strong enough to seek it and follow up on it.

And if the biggest problem your ward has is a cosmetic surgery scandal, then you are blessed with members who can pay their bills, feed their children that are not in foster care, and support their families while dad is in prison. Lucky you. I wish I was in YOUR RS presidency.
La Yen
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:17 am

Not that having twelve children or moving to Pakistan is bad…
Kalli
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:36 am

I have several friends who have undergone “cosmetic” procedures. I myself had surgery at 18 to correct a jaw deformity that made it difficult to bite and chew food. My parents fought for over 3 years to get that surgery approved by our insurance who had declared the procedure cosmetic and unnecessary. And in truth, if you looked at my face and my teeth with braces, they seemed straight enough.

You couldn’t tell that I was unable to bite a sandwich or chew lettuce or eat a hamburger, or that my teeth only touched in the very back. I needed that surgery, cosmetic or not.

Katie is right, rarely as observers to do we know the entire story. I have several friends who’ve undergone “cosmetic” procedures and each one of them has their reasons. Who are we to judge?

Sidenote, if you do perchance to brave an elective surgery only to get huge, oversized, in your face knockers, I might have a little laugh at your expense. Because no one’s knockers should ever be in anyone else’s face, in my humble opinion.
cindy baldwin
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:52 am

This is in response to comment #1:

In the past year I have been in the hospital four times, for two weeks (or more) each time. With the exception of the last one, each admission was “planned” ahead of time, with a minimum of two weeks’ notice. So yes, I had time to prepare.

However, in the specific situation I am in, I really could have used some RS compassionate service when I got home from each of those admissions. Recovery from one of these hospitalizations usually takes about 4-6 weeks, time in which I am exhausted, often in pain, and extremely busy doing treatments and taking care of my body so it can heal. My husband is going to school full-time and working part-time; he has no leeway to take any time off to take care of me. I don’t live near family. In my life right now, there IS no one but the Relief Society to provide community support. (I haven’t actually had any compassionate service help on any of these occasions, but that’s another issue entirely.)

So I do think that there are times when compassionate service really is needed, even if situations are planned in advance. Sometimes, even with foreknowledge and preparation, you still end up unable to accomplish the basic tasks of life and unable to get the support you need.

I’m not trying to divert the topic here – I just wanted to address the issue brought up in comment #1.
suedonym
December 29th, 2009 @ 11:06 am

“I do not believe that the apparent “worthiness” of the reason for surgery should ever be an issue. It’s not about the food–it’s about the act of service. We offer to take in meals because we can, because it’s an act of love. There should be no prerequisite for love.”

Well said Dalene.
martha
December 29th, 2009 @ 11:33 am

I agree with you Dalene. We are not just asked to serve in order to meet the needs of others, we are also meeting our own need to follow the commandment to become as the Savior. He asked me to love. And it’s not good for my heart to withhold love.
Darlene (not Dalene)
December 29th, 2009 @ 11:56 am

Not to go off topic, but IMO we should be bringing meals to each other much more often than we do. I’d like to see a ward that wants so much to bond that they are going out of their way to find reasons to bring meals to each other. I think we should do it all the time for no reason, even! (Can you tell I don’t want to cook tonight?)

There is a time to say no to service opportunities, and if you need to, do it without judging the reason or need behind the request. Just say no, and do it without guilt.

But meanwhile, I’m sick of feeling like I have so much and am so willing to give but darned if I can ever find out who needs my help around here. Everything, every need, is so hush-hush and “respect their privacy” that I feel like the true goal of Relief Society–to provide relief–is not being met. I feel like we can’t bond as a ward, can’t become a zion society, unless more of us are willing to ACCEPT service. (Yes, I know that most people’s reluctance to make their needs known is out of a fear of this very thing–being judged for asking. THAT, I think, is a shameful reflection on our society’s sinful urge to judge.)

Of course, I realize I’m speaking from a very active, very self-sufficient Utah ward. In an inner-city or non-Utah ward, the needs may be overwhelming and the resources inadequate. In that case, see the paragraph above on saying no without guilt.

When you’re deciding whether to serve, seek inspiration and respond out of love, not out of judgment.
Karla
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:29 pm

All I can say is that if it comes to deciding who “deserves” compassionate service, the compassion has been taken right out of it. I wish there would be less judging and more love.
Karla
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

And about plastic surgery, although I would never consider it for myself, I have no right to judge others who have, especially if they have prayed about it.
Heather O.
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:36 pm

Just a note about bringing meals—

I think you have to not judge the RS president, either. She has a wider view of the resources available in the ward, and making a meal for another family is kind of a big deal. I know when I do it, I almost always spend more time and money on another person’s meal than I do for my own family. But if the RS president is aware of financial and emotional difficulties in the ward that are not apparent to other people, she might be wary of asking people to expend resources they don’t have on a situation that is not an emergency. And as a former compassionate service leader, I’m here to tell you that it’s not always easy to get people to make meals, and the reality is that some people need extenuating circumstances to consider doing something like that. Sad, but true.

Yes, there shouldn’t be a worthiness price on love, but sometimes charity has to be practical, too.
La Yen
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:41 pm

One of the greatest things that ever happened to me in my ward was when my daughter was about four months old. The RS president called me out of the blue and said “I just realized that, because you adopted and were out of town for so long, we never brought you meals. So I am bringing you dinner tonight.” I told her I didn’t need dinner, but she said “It is a way that we can show you that we love you, and that an adopted baby is just as deserving of a little compassionate service as a birthed-by-you baby. And EVERYONE needs a meal sometimes.”
Rose
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

First I just want to say, way to go ladies!!! Second I want to say, I fully support your decisions. As long as all the research and prayers have gone into the decision I don’t know how anyone could not support it. And third I want to say, I am amazed by the doctor who said he likes to pray with his patients before surgery that is so awesome and so a doctor I would want to go to!
hennchix
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:45 pm

Elective surgery’s definition is “surgery done non-emergently”. Gall bladder surgery is considered elective if it is not done emergently. Should this disqualify someone from compassionate service? Using the rationale given here it would be appropriate for the person to suffer pain for unending months rather than undergo “elective” surgery. We are all multifaceted-we have spiritual,emotional,physical,and psychosocial needs that must be met in order to function. It does not become us to judge another’s actions when trying to find an excuse to not render service. If someone’s psychosocial need is not being met because they are extremely self concious of a bodily imperfection, then I don’t see why correcting that imperfection should be a problem for someone else. The more I read this blog, the more grateful I am that I do not live in Utah. It appears that much of the gospel is taken for granted there. How sad for you.
Heather O.
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

I also think we are missing another part of the picture. WHY does woman #1 feel subconscious in a bathing suit if she is flat chested? WHY do we feel that our body shapes need to measure up to some kind of standard? Who is going around telling us that we don’t look good enough, that we aren’t enough as we are? And while I don’t think God cares enough about boobs to send the people with breast implants to hell, I also don’t think He’s the one telling us that our bodies are ugly.
sunny
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:55 pm

I loved this post. Thank you for sharing your stories. I’ve had quite a few friends participate in completely elective surgeries. Necessary for physical health? Hardly. Theirs were decisions made based on emotional and mental pain. Would it be nice if their souls were whole enough to not feel concerned with such things? Yes. But all of us make decisions in order to alleviate the pain invited by our own and others short-sightedness here in mortality. How many people work out solely to honor the gift of the physical body, without any concern for appearance? Why do we get braces for our children when their crooked teeth still do the job of chewing? Why do we shave our legs and armpits and wear make-up? Really folks, who among us is beyond caring how we are viewed or perceived, even if only a little? Sometimes even going the opposite direction (refusing to care) is just another way of trying to control how others perceive us.

I just don’t see how it is problematic for me if one of my sisters chooses to alter her body. My friends who have done it have been very happy with the results. Now, deep-seated insecurity is not cured by altering the body, but some anxiety and pain is alleviated. I guess when I am completely free of self-concern and able to go into the world with no thought for self or fear (or resentment) of how others view me, I will be in a place to have a strong opinion about what measures should or shouldn’t be taken to change the body. But I think I would be even less inclined to be concerned with it, as I think often our resistance to others’ altering their appearance has to do with our own insecurities being threatened- a fear that the bar is being raised. When, really, if we were actually secure and free of self-concern we wouldn’t be concerned with someone being “better” and ourselves being “worse”. It just becomes a non-issue.

Until my own physical appearance becomes a non-issue, in the sense that I am not comparing, feeling less or better than, etc., I really have no right to condemn others for having those same concerns.
scw
December 29th, 2009 @ 12:57 pm

Why is it not mentioned that in these cases the man or husband should be able to provide for his family? At least take a quick run down to McDonalds or something. Are Mormon men that pathetic that when their wives are laid up they will wither and die unless the releif society steps in? It makes me sick to hear the expectations that some have.
La Yen
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:01 pm

I think God cares about our breasts, hips, bellies, skin, hair, and every other part of us. If we are to pray over our flocks and fields and everything in our lives, then we are to pray about our bodies, our images, and our feelings. I have had experiences where God has directed me to find just the right physician, neighbor, and–in a fit of complete self-loathing and despair as a teen–outfit. Because He loves me and cares as much about HOW I endure to the end as that I DO endure to the end.
sunny
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:04 pm

scw,

I guess that can be looked at a couple of different ways. Yes, many a man has played the helpless card in circumstances like these. Many husbands expect someone else to do the cooking. child care, etc. And that is sad.

But also consider how “out of sorts” a household can become with any sick member of the family. I have had sweet visiting teachers bring a meal when my child was sick. Was I able to cook? Yes. But caring for someone is time consuming and tiring and just knowing there’s one less job to get done is a life-saver. My husband is a wonderful and willing cook. When I am sick he does everything, yet I would love for him to be able to focus a little more on the kids or even me instead of dinner. Necessity? No. A wonderful gift? Yes.

McDonald’s can be great. But a nice, warm, homemade meal can do wonders for the soul.
sunny
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:09 pm

Also, consider that we are discussing situations that may take weeks of recovery. That means weeks of McDonald’s, freezer meals, husbands arriving home from work late and still needing to make dinner, get the kids to practice, etc. A few meals in the midst of that is surely not asking the ward to completely take over for a family’s self-sufficiency. The only thing to be considered at that point is the ward’s resources.
al
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

Prior to knowing and loving my SIL I would have been respectfully against plastic surgery. However, watching her struggle with her self esteem for years (over simple things like finding a shirt that doesn’t make her look like a boy) has changed my opinion. I support her 100%.

I really don’t think anyone has the right to judge others for these kinds of decisions. There is so much gray area and like someone mentioned above, we hardly ever know the full story behind their decision.

And I may be wrong here…but, wasn’t there a time in the church when makeup and hair-dye were looked down upon? I’m just saying…
It would not be appropriate to go to church with blue hair and Madonna style makeup, but when they’re used with moderation it’s acceptable.
Is it so hard to believe that moderate cosmetic surgery may be completely acceptable in the church? (Not talking about triple D’s and Michael Jackson faces here!) Just sayin’…
Melissa M.
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

Well said, Sunny!
sunny
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

One last thing.

When our first baby was born he was in the NICU for a week and hooked up to multiple cords and machines for weeks after we brought him home. Our student ward brought us dinner in the hospital EVERY night. Each night a different couple would come and bring us dinner AND eat with us so we would have company during those long hours. Isn’t that amazing? They brought us multiple meals when we got home and again when I had gall bladder surgery at six weeks postpartum. We were perfectly capable of opening a can of chili, but that ward just wrapped their arms around us and it made the whole traumatic time so much easier to bare. I have never forgotten what a warm meal and a little company can mean to someone.
Current RS president
December 29th, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

There is no question in my mind that every situation is individual and we should not judge them. As a current RS president, I would ask that same thing about judging a RS president for what her hesitation to take a meal.

RS presidents are not perfect, believe me I know this very well. But there is no way to know what is behind every decision–even if you think you are sure you do know. My motto is to err on the side of kindness, but there are times when a decision has been made and a sister (or more than one) goes absolutely crazy and says things about me to everyone that will listen to them, assuming they know exactly why I did a certain thing. I don’t respond, because it is isn’t between them and me, but boy do I wish they would not jump to conclusions when there is no way for them to know what is going on. And often, the decision has been made by the bishop and I am following through.

So yes, we should not judge others. And that includes RS presidents who are doing their best, even if you are just “sure” that is not the case and they could do better.
Emily U
December 29th, 2009 @ 2:04 pm

Naismith, I am glad you are not my Relief Society president. I’ve given and received lots of meals that sure, we could have survived without. But that’s not the point. We try to make each other’s burdens lighter.

I admit I’m prone to judge people who have cosmetic surgery, but after reading these stories, I feel more understanding for where these people are coming from.
anon
December 29th, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

I’d be interested in hearing from women who have had cosmetic surgery and regret it. (But maybe there aren’t any!) It would obviously be doubly hard, in this culture, to admit to this.

Also, I think it’s important to remember that a belief that the practice of cosmetic surgery to enhance appearance is bad for society is not the same as judging people who decide to do it. If I think that any woman’s breast enhancement surgery, for example, is unhealthy for womankind in general, it doesn’t mean I am judging anyone in particular, any more than if a belief that drinking coke is unhealthy means that I have uncharitable feelings for anyone who does it.
Justine
December 29th, 2009 @ 2:45 pm

One of the great things about my circle of friends is that we all have different experiences and opinions on a huge array of subjects. Anon (#39), you put it well that broad beliefs don’t have to affect individual relationships. In some friendships, I’m the button-down conservative, in others, I’m the let loose liberal.

I don’t think I could imagine having or choosing to have plastic surgery. I do worry about the broader message of women’s bodies and how they’re “supposed” to look. But there are women that I love dearly who have had it, and I don’t love them any less, or condemn their choices in any way. There’s just no way I could, aren’t we all beggars? Nothing in this world gives me the right to decide for someone else, or to judge unrighteously. I choose for myself and my family.

The world isn’t as black and white as it was when I was 20. There is still God’s immutable law, but there are literally millions of gradients within.
Sinclair
December 29th, 2009 @ 3:06 pm

My sisters and I (I’m the only LDS) were recipients of the greatest of kindnesses while our mother was in the hospital before she died. Dinner was brought to the hospital for us on many occasions, to my house and we had to turn down several meals because there was just so much food! That was a very hard two weeks made a little better by the meals, offers of childcare and prayers from my sisters in the ward.

On the other hand, when I delivered my last two children in different wards, stakes and states, (after very difficult pregnancies) we only received two meals, both after my youngest was born. We certainly could have used more since, when DH is the cook, we eat out. Taco Bell and McD’s at our expense are okay and all, but a homecooked meal would have been nice.

Later, while on a call to our then Compassionate Service Leader to arrange a day and time for me to bring a meal to a mother who had just delivered her fifth baby, it was explained to me that “we only do two meals now for new babies”. I fell out of my chair, bum hitting the floor after my jaw. I made arrangements otherwise and have since done so.

I had a neighbor who had a cosmetic surgery and she told me it was the best thing she could ever have done for herself. If a boob job makes her feel better about her appearance then why not get it? (She was barely an A cup then “advanced” to a C.) We wear make-up, dress in clothes that flatter our bodies, shave and pluck for the same effect do we not?

Personally, I think the VT / HT and Compassionate Service programs are great and all, but aren’t they just a means for the institutional church to ensure we all help each other out as we ought to be doing anyway no matter what? I understand there are extenuating circumstances, but must there be minimums / maximums for any situation our brothers and sisters face? And seriously, is this a church-wide practice or just in my ward?

As for cosmetic or other surgeries, it doesn’t matter to me; I’ll be there with a meal and a specific (or general) offer of help. My place is not to point out what I think another’s issues are and aren’t.
Annette
December 29th, 2009 @ 3:28 pm

Great post–great stories–great comments.

I do know that plastic surgery has gotten to be a trendy problem in some areas. I know a ward where it’s almost turned into the “in” thing to get a boob job or tummy tuck. Women get together and brag over their surgeries. That’s just nuts.

That said, I’ve had elective plastic surgery. Very few people know that. I was 12. My mom was adamant that we tell no one. I interpreted that to mean it was something shameful–even though I was SO GLAD to have had the surgery and that I wasn’t teased at school anymore–but making it a secret made me feel ashamed. I didn’t get that she was just trying to protect me from others’ judgments, because THEY wouldn’t understand.

I remember being scared to “confess” the surgery to my fiance. Fortunately, it wasn’t a big deal to him. But other people would have judged me, I’m sure. They wouldn’t understand why we’d had my ears pinned back so I no longer looked like a clown.

Fortunately, none of our kids have inherited my ears–but I would have gotten them the surgery in a heartbeat if they had.
Lei
December 29th, 2009 @ 3:33 pm

A lot of points which I didn’t initally consider have opened my eyes here, I mostly found myself nodding in agreement to Sunny in her #29 post… I have a hard time believing none of us are without some concern with our appearance, or that there aren’t some who deliberately try to turn heads by hovering on the oppsite end of the spectrum.

The point that husbands are capable enough to step in caught my eye as well. By the time I’d had my 4th child, and had been on bedrest 3 times with previous pregnancies, I have to admit – I feared judgement in the form of “Why does she keep having kids and expecting others to help her survive the pregnancy?” Which nobody had any right to think; we didn’t have 4 kids/difficult pregnancies out of ignorance, we did it because we felt that those children belonged here, with us. Anyway, because of my insecure thoughts my husband DID try to take on most of the burden of keeping house and preparing meals. In order to do so he had to telecommute (work from home) and coincidentally either a)did not have the most productive work days or b) neglected our children and myself. It caused a lot of frustration for us as I was lonely and feeling very helpless while he tried to keep more plates spinning than EVER had. In hindsight I wish I’d had more confidence in my decision and let more (of the sincere) people help. It was with pride that we ever thought we could do it on our own.

One last thing – there was a time when I thought plastic surgery of any kind was either vain or an easy way out. My thinking has changed because as a mother you lose your inhibitions in so many ways, among them physically… though not always by choice and we’re certainly not always comfortable with it. But i am at a point in my life where I can take the time to really care for myself. I exercise regularly, ! eat well, and yet despite my best efforts I sag a little here and there, I have excess skin, stretch marks, etc. I wore them all with pride when I had no other choice, but can now say that I certainly wouldn’t mind one day getting a little nip and tuck or lift. I’ve put in the effort to take my body back but I can’t do it all the way alone, lol. And I do appreciate what I’ve got. But I DON’T feel like I am “vain” or “taking the easy way out”. So more power to you women who’ve shared your stories with us. More power to you for being brave enough to take care of yourselves after all you have given.
Lindsey
December 29th, 2009 @ 3:35 pm

Here’s my two cents…

Several of my close family members–including my own mother–have had elective plastic surgery. I’m not going to lie, I’ll lay it out. I have totally judged them and I still do.

Here’s why: I have my own body issues. I have been overweight my whole life. My body has not and will never look like what our society deems “the perfect body.” Would I love perky breasts and killer legs? Sure! Would I love to get that flab from three pregnancies to magically disappear? You bet.

Here’s the thing though–my issues about my body come from inside me. They are things that surgery can’t fix. Just like money can’t buy happiness, neither can surgery. Really–you have to fix what’s causing the real problem. Getting weight loss surgery would never fix the problems that caused me to gain weight in the first place.

Now, I’m not talking about those who need reconstructive surgery for birth defects, illness and disease, accidents, etc. I’m talking about women who want larger breasts so they can feel like more of a woman, or women who feel the need to alter their face as they age or because their nose or their ears are too large for their liking.

I am a firm believer that we’ll have to answer for altering our bodies that way when we stand before Christ at the last judgment. (But that is not the reason why I would never have elective surgery.)

Just like I’d never get a tattoo, I’d never get surgery to alter my appearance. Our bodies will be perfect someday. They really will and we are given them the way they are for a reason and it’s our choice what we do with them.

I can certainly understand the logic that goes behind wanting larger or smaller breasts or whatever. I’ve wished and dreamed myself. But I cannot understand the logic that goes into actually going through with it. I just can’t. I’ve heard so many horror stories about post-surgery problems, not to mention that it doesn’t *really* fix the self-esteem or confidence problems. Most people can see right through it to the underlying issues. I don’t buy stories about bigger boobs making someone feel better about wearing a swimsuit.

One close family member I know was talking to my younger sister regarding her own breast implants and was telling my sister to NOT do it. It wasn’t worth it and if she could, she’d go back and not have the surgery. Not to mention that when you age those silicone or saline boobies don’t sag, but the rest of your breasts and body do.

What does getting surgery teach our daughters? I’ll tell you because my own mother had implants less than a year ago. It teaches you that there’s something wrong with your body and it’s okay to fix it with something foreign like a saline filled sac placed underneath skin and muscle. I’ve seen her boobs. I was the one she called after she had it done and needed someone to listen to her complaints about the long healing process and the scars that were growing and hurting so much she couldn’t even raise her arms.

I lost all respect for my mother. And I would not and will never do that to myself and to my daughter. I love the Dove ad campaign that is pushing us to see ourselves as beautiful.

In the words of my husband, every stretch mark or saggy bit of skin is part of me. It tells a story. So what if my breasts sag–they’ve fed and nourished my babies. So what if I have big thighs–it makes a better place to hold two kids on my lap.

I wish we could start loving ourselves without focusing on physical appearance. Because truly, it doesn’t matter to people who really love you. It’s a problem within, not without.
Beth
December 29th, 2009 @ 4:29 pm

There is a lovely book by Jeffrey R. Holland and Susan W. Tanner called, “Modesty, Makeovers and the Pursuit of Physical Beauty.” This book has some great insights from our church leaders about this subject exactly, and I would highly recommend it to all women and YW in the gospel. It’s a quick, easy read, too, by the way. This book really helps to remind us that we are daughters of God and as a mother, I think it is imperative that we listen to our leaders counsel before we make any choice that will influence our own daughters’ self esteems. After all, it is a proven fact that daughters build their self esteems from their mother’s examples.
Cheri
December 29th, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

Anon and Justine(#39 & 40), thank you both for saying so well what I was thinking. We can feel concern about the practice while loving individuals, and in this case (unlike drug use or something) supporting their ability to receive revelation and feeling happy for them if it’s been a good thing in their lives.

I have several friends who I admire a great deal who’ve had “boob jobs,” one in particular who is especially gifted at receiving and following direction from the Lord.

At the same time, I’m very concerned about the social forces that make cosmetic surgery increasingly popular. Modern society seems to have exaggerated the age-old problem of valuing women first for their looks. Modern culture also works constantly to separate women’s sexuality from their divine, inner selves, barraging us with the message that sex is about looks and that only one particular body type is beautiful.

Several people have commented that most of us (me too) wear make-up, shave, pluck, style our hair, carefully select our clothing . . . on and on . . . so why not surgery too, if you can and want to? It seems to me that each generation ratchets up the expectations because they can. I doubt women have shaved forever. Women in my mom’s generation didn’t feel compelled to whiten (or even necessarily straighten) their teeth. I wonder if this is a healthy trajectory we’re on. Where does it stop? Should it? (at least we’ve given up the corset! am I possibly wrong about the ratcheting up? maybe expectations just switch.)

But let me come back to my original point: When Jesus says “Judge not that ye be not judged for by what measure ye mete it shall be measure to you” I believe He is speaking literally, not metaphorically. I believe that the one thing we’re sent here to learn is charity, and that we will literally receive the measure of mercy we offered to others. Even when it comes to actual “sin” (which today’s topic is not) we are to leave the judging to God. We are simply to love.
FoxyJ
December 29th, 2009 @ 4:45 pm

I’ve never had cosmetic surgery and never considered it. I can honestly say that I have few body issues and it’s not really something I struggle with. But, I can say that some aspects of my life are different from the ‘norm’ and that sharing my story has often felt like the right thing to do, even though sometimes I’ve been attacked for it. The thing I most appreciate about these stories is the role of personal revelation and the fact that none of them is shared with the intent of convincing us to make the same choice. Each of us has a different life path, different life needs, and will find different answers to life’s questions. I hesitate to make judgements about the choices of others because I’ve been on the other side of those, and they hurt. It helps to have a sure knowledge that the path you choose is ‘right’, but it doesn’t provide full protection from both the choices of others and logic that seem to indicate a different choice as being better. I appreciate posts like this because they help me see what some of my own blind spots are and encourage me to really see others as human and deserving of compassion.
Julie R.
December 29th, 2009 @ 4:54 pm

Addressing the “elective surgery” piece: I thought I had something eloquent here, but I don’t. For me, surgery is surgery, and reasons behind surgeries flat-out shouldn’t matter. Most people treat any kind of surgery very seriously, acknowledging all the risks prior to agreeing to surgery. With the exception of a few (because there are always exceptions), I’d be willing to bet decisions to have cosmetic surgeries are not made lightly.

Addressing the “compassionate service” tangent: true, don’t judge the RSP or the CSL, however, there appears to be not only an unwritten code of why and when people receive compassionate service, but also an unwritten code of who receives compassionate service: married and breeding or elderly. Last year, within four months I lost my aunt and my grandma and had to travel to their funerals. I was in the RS Presidency at the time. No phone calls, no meals, no offer to check my mail, no nothing. I don’t mean to beat the bitter single drum, but every now and then…

Bottom line really is what Dalene said many many comments ago: there should be no pre-requisite for love. So I guess I really didn’t need to write all this in the first place.

To #44: Just as an FYI: the same company that owns and approves Dove and the Campaign for Real Beauty also owns and approves the misogynistic ads for AXE.
Julie R.
December 29th, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

Whoops, I can’t read. That should be to #41.
CS Eric
December 29th, 2009 @ 5:00 pm

I admit I’m an outsider here, but I am surprised at how much High School “Mean Girls” so many of the comments are. If somebody needs service, they need service. And we need to give it. I am reminded of King Bejamin’s sermon: “Perhaps thou shalt say: The man [woman] has brought upon himself [herself] his [her] misery [by getting a boob job]; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him [her] of my food, nor impart unto him [her] of my sbustance that he may not suffer [eating McDonald's or Taco Bell], for his [her] punishments are just–”

If somebody has reached the point where they have prayerfully decided to have “elective” surgery to help them cope better through life, it’s none of my damn business. If they are at that point, then they probably need more love and support from me and others in the ward “family” than a just a chicken casserole.
La Yen
December 29th, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

Dear CS Eric:
I love you.
The end.
Naismith
December 29th, 2009 @ 5:20 pm

“Naismith, I am glad you are not my Relief Society president. I’ve given and received lots of meals that sure, we could have survived without. But that’s not the point. We try to make each other’s burdens lighter.”

Oh, if I were the RS president in a ward where meals were provided by elves, OF COURSE we would do lots of meals. But I live in a ward where I was asked to cook a meal for a woman who had emergency surgery, when it had only been three weeks since I birthed a child including surgery. (The cooking was not quite as bad as driving a stick shift to deliver the dinner so soon after the surgery.) When you have a limited number of sisters able to provide meals, it does make sense to give priority to emergency situations, or else people do get burned out. I’ve seen people feel badly that they can’t afford to, and stop attending so they won’t get asked.

I don’t know whether it is more common to be in a ward like mine or not. Churchwide, I suspect so.

I think the “meals=love” thing is wonderful where enough folks are available to provide that service without prostration. But it can be something of a mindless tradition. When I was pregnant in our student ward at BYU with my second child, I was sick for all 9 months and nobody brought a meal. After birth, when I was much better able to cope, they brought meals. It was like they were just checking off a list, feeling good that they had done what was expected, without any thought for when I was actually in need.

As for “weeks of freezer meals…” as if that were unusual or a burden–well, that’s my life on weekdays, always. Between the music lessons and medical appointments, I am hardly ever home 10 minutes before supper, but we always eat at home. If I make dinner for someone, it is likely to be soup from the crock pot with bread from the bread machine.

Nobody has mentioned the cost of cosmetic surgery–insurance doesn’t pay for it, nor fixing problems resulting from it. I’m really impressed with the husband who would be willing to take on that financial burden.
jendoop
December 29th, 2009 @ 6:09 pm

I agree with much of what Lindsey had to say.

Cheri said, “At the same time, I’m very concerned about the social forces that make cosmetic surgery increasingly popular.” The social forces that make this so popular are the numbers of women doing it. Every woman who decides to drastically alter her body to meet our current society’s idea of beauty effects society.

That said, I have happily taken meals to women who have had breast enhancement surgery. It made me sad to think that women I rubbed elbows with in RS felt so bad about themselves that they would undergo surgery to get some kind of relief. My heart ached for them and I wondered if there was something I could have/should have done to be a better sister. Could there have been a spiritual/emotional solution instead?

It is true that individuals have agency to make their own choices. I support the choices of others, it’s part of what this life is about. I will do what I can to embrace my sisters striving to live the gospel regardless of their plastic content. On the flip side, I also have some responsibility to speak up for what I feel to be right. Especially when it effects the society my children grow up in.

You know that quote from Sister Hinckley about arriving at the pearly gates covered in PB&J in a beat up station wagon? Could that apply to how we use our bodies as well? ‘To be worn out in the service of the Lord?’ My saddlebags, stretch marks, sagging breasts, etc are all evidences of the life I have lived and enjoyed. I’ll be keeping them.
La Yen
December 29th, 2009 @ 6:24 pm

How is a husband “taking on the financial burden” of cosmetic surgery any different than a wife “taking on the financial burden” of dad’s new plasma screen? I mean, both can cost upwards of 5K, and both are non-elective…

Except one was prayed about by BOTH partners and was studied about with fasting and prayer.

(Although my husband would fast and pray if he thought I would sign up on a mega TV for the living room…)
Kevin Barney
December 29th, 2009 @ 6:43 pm

Thanks for the post; I quite enjoyed it. I have no problem with plastic surgery, but I appreciated reading these stories nonetheless.
Lori
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:05 pm

This reminds me of an incident in a ward where I used to live. The RS was really bad at providing compassionate service. I adopted one child, gave birth to two, and had gall bladder surgery in 4 1/2 years there and got one meal. One summer, after returning from vacation, I met a woman at church who had, while visiting her husband’s family a couple of hours away, gave birth prematurely. Her husband was in the armed forces and hadn’t been able to stay with her and the baby. She was at the Ronald McDonald House while her baby was in NICU. She had come to church for a couple of weeks while I was gone and nobody had offered any assistance. I took her shopping and she stayed at my home with her baby when they were both out of the hospital and waiting to return home. At the same time I had a very good friend and neighbor who had just had a scheduled surgery.

My friend had planned for her surgery, had meals in the freezer for her family, and had specifically asked the RS to do nothing. Nonetheless, the bishop decided that we had been neglecting our active members in compassionate service and directed the RS to take her a meal. My friend was furious at her request for no meals being ignored. She said she was going to put a sign on her door directing that the meal be brought to my house (a few doors down) because I had the extra guests. I didn’t need a meal, I was perfectly capable of cooking and caring for my houseguests. We laughed at some poor RS sister going back and forth, but no meal was ever forthcoming.
wondering where we draw the line...
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:42 pm

#1- Each Relief Society is different. Mine ward is probably more like Naismith’s. We can’t handle, as a ward Relief Society, feeding everyone who could use a meal. It saddens me, but the welfare needs and compassionate service needs are great. I also agree that with childbirth, you have 9 months to prepare. I have with each of my children prepared a number of freezer meals and sauces that can be frozen. It wasn’t hard. Is everyone capable of this? Certainly not. I’m happy to bring a meal. I think 2 meals is sufficient for a new baby for me personally, but I understand that circumstances for others are different and that circumstances (like a mom’s post partum mental health) can change very rapidly. What is required is good visiting teachers who know their sister and can get a feel for how she is doing. Each ward is VERY different, and I think we should leave them to their own stewardships and just worry about ours.

#2- I don’t really have a problem with plastic surgery. After losing 95 lbs through diet and lots exercise, my breasts are closer to my belly button than my neck, and of course I don’t really like it, and have thought about doing something to fix it. My real question is where do we draw the line? How can I (I emphasize the ‘I’ here) feel good about spending a large amount of money on that (or a big tv, or a huge house with a gourmet kitchen and a master suite as big as an apartment) when there are so many needs worldwide? I guess, in the most respectful way possible, I’m wondering how people who’ve had cosmetic surgery reconciled the expense of it with their sense of charity towards others, globally and locally. How can you see the Christian coallition commercials and not feel rotten about not sending the 25 cents a day? I’m not trying to judge, just looking for perspective. Its the same thing I think when I visit a mormon family in a 4000 sq ft house in a gated community with a pool. As I sit in my house and wish for another bedroom, or a bigger tv, or granite countertops, I think of the pioneers who gave up everything… maybe that is a bit dramatic, but it is seriously a conversation I have in my end often, especially since going to the temple and making covenants with the Lord.

And I agree with jendoop, I want to be the beat up station wagon when I get to the pearly gates. I’ve earned it, or at least I want to. Can’t take the implants with me…
mormonhermitmom
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:45 pm

I don’t think it’s any of my business what surgery people feel they need to have done. I just get nervous for them. I know of one who had a breast enlargement done and all sorts of things went horribly wrong. I know a woman whose husband had a version of the lapband done, and unfortunately, after a few years he was back to square one. On the other hand, my own mom had to have her abdominal muscles reattached after her last birth (cesarean). I guess I’m just a nervous nellie about surgery. But, if a meal helps people rest and recuperate, who cares what the surgery was?
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 8:52 pm

katie–You hit the nail right on the head: no matter what my preconceived notion is about something, when I get to know a person’s real story or when something happens to someone I already know and love, I feel empathy and my only desire is to be supportive.

mary b.–Great point. I know I personally need to seek and follow the spirit more as I serve, but I also know how hard it is to serve someone who is being evasive. I long for more openness between women–that we can feel safe enough with each other to open up and be honest about our lives, ask for help when we need it and offer it freely, without judgment or a price tag.

Angela–A couple of my friends read and followed the comments on the last post. Things got rather ugly. I too felt it was courageous for them to come forward and I know they did so for that very reason–in an effort to help foster understanding.

Millie–Good point about what the Lord sees and knows about each one of us.

Lindsay1138–When my husband had cancer surgery last year a friend of mine brought over three loaded gift cards to Papa Johns. It was awesome–I could order the pizza from my cell and have it delivered to my kids when I wasn’t home. When my preschool age daughter had hernia surgery we didn’t need any meals, but another friend brought a big bowl full of ice and juicies and popsicles and such. I have learned so much about serving through the loving acts of my friends.
Lisa
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

What about motive? Intent?

Did the RS who didn’t bring you a meal when you felt x,y, or z intend to offend you?

Is the intent/motive of the woman who chooses elective surgery to offend you? God?

How do you know someone else’s intent/motive? You don’t. You only know your own. Are you looking to be offended? Are you, in assuming a specific intent of another, merely expressing a personal weakness or struggle?

This past year, I’ve been criticized for coloring my hair and for my husband’s beard. It wasn’t done kindly or as a joke, it was done by questioning our obedience (to what, I’m not sure). I wish I could laugh about this, but I’m still hurt over it.

In plastic surgery or WHATEVER, questioning someone’s allegiance or obedience to God, a very sacred and personal journey, is one of the meanest things someone can do. Looking for ways you are “better”than someone (“At least I don’t have breast implants!” or “At least I don’t have a flashy car”) are not measurements of our own devotion to God, but rather an admission that we have a long way to go. . .
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:16 pm

La Yen–you know I love you, don’t you?

Kalli–I so agree with you about the knockers.

cindy–Wow–that is a lot of hospitalization. Blessings to you.

suedonym–Thank you. I thought about apologizing for being on a soapbox about that, but I feel so strongly about an apology would be a lie.

martha–Good point.

Darlene–It’s such a tricky thing. We can’t help bear one another’s burdens when they’re so tightly kept, but people don’t feel they can share their burdens because they know they will be judged.

Karla–”…less judging and more love.” Yes, on so many levels.

Heather O.–I understand–as Darlene stated so well–resources are not unlimited and needs vary. My point was that if 100% of the women I know who have had surgery didn’t feel comfortable telling friends, visiting teachers or RS presidencies, there is a something very wrong.
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:39 pm

Rose–I probably need to state that I do understand people feel strongly about this subject. I used to feel that strongly about this subject. But when, as in the case of friend I, someone I had known and loved for years finally had the courage to reveal something that personal and share with me a perspective I had never considered because it’s so far removed from my own experience, I couldn’t help but feel empathy. When friends II and III were finally able to tell me about the decisions they had made, I couldn’t help but be supportive. I love them enough to trust them and to respect their choices. It was a great lesson to learn.

hennchix–I don’t even know that the story I opened with took place here in Utah. I don’t think women being judgmental is specific to Utah–or even specific to LDS women. Having live outside of Utah and in Utah I can say there are challenges and blessings about both. Plese don’t feel sad for me.

Heather O.–I think we as women are inundated with messages that we are not enough, and I know perfectly well who is the source of those messages. But I also believe it is perfectly normal to associate having breasts with being a woman. I was thinking about this the other day in terms of women who have to have mastectomies. Many of them choose to get prostheses, which by their nature are replacements for body parts they had or were meant to have. It’s not hard for me to go from there to understanding why a woman who is completely flat would desire to have a body part that by nature of her gender she should have. That said, I’m still with Kallie on the in-your-face type surgeries.
Paula
December 29th, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

I apologize up front for not taking the time to read every comment (I got about halfway through them). But I’d like to bring the RS meals idea into the light of dollars and cents. Asking ward members to serve others is wonderful, but if one family is on the receiving end of meal after meal, week afer week, that is a lot of money fellow ward members are giving out of their pockets, (on top of tithes and offerings). I had problems as a RS pres. getting people to volunteer to bring in meals at one point and was wondering about charitable hearts (as was mentioned in some comments here) until someone pointed out that the economics of feeding another person’s family is hard for some whose hearts are willing but pocketbooks are weak. I completely understand that it’s hard to go for long periods of time without meals, but I hope that when we receive meals, we realize ths offer extends beyond the meal planning/preparation/delivery and also involves purchasing food. It is possible that the RS presidency mentioned in this post wondered about the economics of asking sisters to bring in meals.
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

sunny–I particularly liked this thought of yours: “Until my own physical appearance becomes a non-issue, in the sense that I am not comparing, feeling less or better than, etc., I really have no right to condemn others for having those same concerns.” I’m going to ponder it for awhile. Thank you.

scw–in my experience, meals are usually not expected, but they are almost always appreciated. When my RS brought meals in to my family when I had surgery it was not because they didn’t think my husband couldn’t cook or go to McDonald’s; they brought them in because they love us and they wanted to help and taking in meals was something they could do. As I stated before, they even brought meals in for a couple of days when my husband had surgery. It was such a blessing during what was a traumatic and overwhelming time for us to have one less thing to worry about.

al–I appreciate your sharing your experience with your SIL. Thank you.

Current RS President–as stated before, my intent was not to judge the RS president.

Emily U–Thank you for your candor.

anon–I would be interested in those stories, too.

Justine–I feel the same way–my world isn’t the same either and it’s because I have come to know and love people with different life experiences. And my world is all the richer for it.

Sinclair–Perhaps I feel so strongly about service because my family was similarly blessed when my father died. When I look back on that time all I feel is the love. I want to pay it forward.

Annette–Thank you so much for sharing your story.
Morgan
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:12 pm

I don’t have a problem with elective surgeries for other people – it is their choice. However, I do often find myself wondering why in the Church it is not okay to have double holes in your ears or a tattoo, but you can get your breasts enhanced. To me, all three are altering the body God gave you, so why are some ok and some aren’t?
DH for elective surgery
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:13 pm

I am a DH…my wife has been talking about a boob job for quite some time (since I have known her). She pretty much meets what #1 describes — has no chest. Obviously I love her for more than her chest, and don’t care one way or the other. But, it has been something that she has struggled with since puberty. And, now that she is done with her child-bearing, she has reinitiated the conversations.

And, hey,I won’t complain TOO much.

Regarding the food issue: my wife was gone for 2 months taking care of her dying mother. I was a single parent, working father. It was the toughest thing I have ever done. I had two full-time jobs, and the only one that I couldn’t get fired from didn’t pay me. I didn’t want meals, tho! What I would have killed for would have been some afterschool support. The hours from 2:30-6pmish were hellish to schedule and prepare for.
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:17 pm

Lei–I appreciate your sharing your thoughts about your experience as well. You bring up two important points about recovery that I feel are often overlooked: loneliness and helplessness. I have experienced that as well, post-surgery. Perhaps this is for another post, but I wonder what we could do more to help sisters deal with that.

Lindsey–Thank you for your candor. I can honestly say that while I do not yet appreciate the sags or stretch marks on my own body, I do feel that way about my scars, so I get that. It is our choice what we do with our bodies. It doesn’t come easily, but I feel I must respect others’ ability to choose what they do with theirs just as much as I appreciate my own ability to choose what I do with my own.

Beth–I love Elder Holland. Thanks for the recommendation.

Cheri–Thank you for your comment, particularly the last part. Well said.
Sue
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:23 pm

I do understand that not all wards have the resources to shower people with meals, but when that is NOT the case – when people are blessed with “enough and to spare – I don’t think there is much of an excuse for being stingy with our service.

I just had baby number four – a planned c-section. My husband is the cook in our family, always has been, so of COURSE he could handle meals. But I don’t think the point of bringing in meals is to make sure people have food. It’s about making the family feel loved.

Our RS assigned three meals, and then, randomly, various friends and neighbors brought over meals too. I would get a phone call in the morning from someone down the street saying “I’m bringing dinner over tonight, do NOT try to talk me out of it.” It brought me to tears almost every time – because I felt so loved and taken care of and grateful. And of course then I wanted to do something to serve each of these women.

It isn’t the meal, it’s the people who love you enough to bring a meal. And if a ward doesn’t have enough people who feel that love for each other and who are excited to have the opportunity to serve each other, then they probably need to serve MORE, not less, until their hearts are softened. Service is for US, not for the people we are serving.

Re surgery: I would get a breast reduction if my insurance covered it. Skinny or fat – my breasts are always gigantic, and when I’m fit, they attract attention I just don’t want, make it difficult to run and hurt my back. I would not care two hoots what anyone else thought about it. And I don’t believe for a second that God would care.
Mrs. Organic
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:28 pm

Thanks Dalene for bringing up this subject. I remember that last post (and may actually be guilty of an insensitve POV). I appreciate hearing from women who’ve gone through these experiences. Also La Yen and CS Eric – I think I love you.

We are one of those families that ends up being the recipient of a lot of Compassionate Service (casseroles) since my son is disabled, and both he and I have had cancer. It can be hard to accept service. I try to plan ahead and have meals in the freezer for those times when my son is in the hospital because I am stubborn like that. Truthfully, the best service we’ve received has been the times when other families have gone out of their way to make my children feel included or have taken them to activities they would have missed out on because we were in the hospital.

One more thing, after losing 70 lbs this past year and watching gravity kick in, I’ve completely changed my tune about elective procedures. I feel badly that I’ve judged people in the past when I had no idea what it must have been like (the factors involved)to make such a personal decision. And since when did extra skin, stretch marks and sagging body parts become the badge of motherhood?

Thanks again Dalene for a thought-provoking post.
QueenScarlett
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:34 pm

My take on plastic surgery is in general. As in every situation there are exceptions. I understand that. It’s personal – I get that. At the same time, I do believe there are ideals to be preserved.

My take on plastic surgery comes also from the issues I had to deal with as an a lone asian girl in bountiful, UT. Let’s face it…in nearly all my congregations still to this day… I’m often the lone asian girl that sticks out.

As a kid I HATED. I absolutely HATED how different I was. I hated my yellow skin, my slanted eyes, my coarse, thick hair. I had massive self-esteen issues. I was surrounded by beautiful blonde, burnette girls with blue eyes, white skin and …they didn’t wear boy hand-me-downs.

When I was in 10th grade I gave a speech touting an imaginary soap that would make you any ethnicity you wanted. Want that blonde, white body… bam… shower and you got it. Want a tan, exotic look… just hop in the shower and voila!

Luckily, for me, no such drastic surgery was available. Michael Jackson might disagree with that statement… but for me… it wasn’t. I learned a lot over the years coming to terms with how I looked on the outside…and how I felt on the inside. Those trials, working with who I was, made me appreciate who I am.

I think about my ancestors in China. The breaking, binding and confinement of foot wrapping for all young girls at the ages of 4-6… for a standard of societal, economic beauty is quickly denounced, derided and abhorred by each of us. So … what is the difference between that…and our western sensibilities?

I understand there are many issues involved. Not every woman who pursues elective enhancement is insecure… but the majority are. And… I wonder how long that band aid really, truly heals what hurts inside. And if we never learn how to accept, and love that scared little girl inside, how will we truly be happy?
QueenScarlett
December 29th, 2009 @ 10:38 pm

…and about the meal thing. DUDE… I love meals. MEALS rock. I wish I wasn’t one of those everyone thought was a-okay…
hennchix
December 29th, 2009 @ 11:01 pm

Dalene, I didn’t mean to slam you- and I wasn’t referring to one of the stories you used to bring up this discussion. I just think that whether or not meals are delivered is not the point here. There are many other ways service can and should be given. When I had surgery 29 days ago, my neighbor who has been inactive for >20 years called and asked if my son could come to her home. She loves having my bipolar,autistic son in her home because he brings a spirit of peace and love with him.She won’t come to Church because “it might burn down if I walk in there”. When our bishop did an impromptu drop-in a couple of days before Christmas, she told him that the RS wasn’t bringing meals and that we needed to be taken care of. My friend, who has scary tatoos,drinks,and swears like a sailor, is a better example of Christlike love than many of the active, “righteous” members of my ward. To be non-judgemental. That is my goal for this year. Sisters, ours is not to question why one of us does or does not do something. It is ours to support each other and love each other in the best way we can.
dalene
December 29th, 2009 @ 11:21 pm

hennchix–no worries. i did not feel slammed. i just wanted you know living in Utah is not so bad. (But oops–there was a typo in my response to you. Now that is sad.) And thank you–the meals were not at all the point. I guess I inadvertently hijacked my own post right in the first paragraph!

I like your goal for the year. I will keep plugging away at that as well.
Heidi
December 29th, 2009 @ 11:27 pm

I’d question whether bringing meals to someone who just had elective surgery is truly a good investment of ward members’ resources (time and money), simply because a person who can afford to spend 5K on breast implants or lapband surgery can probably afford to spend 20 (or even a hundred, if the need lasts that long) dollars on Chinese delivery and probably doesn’t really need a meal brought in. And in most wards, there’s a very good statistical chance that anyone who spends that kind of change on a completely voluntary surgery certainly doesn’t need the financial resources involved in making a delivery-worth meal as much as the person who is actually PROVIDING the meal could use that money.

I hope that doesn’t sound overly cold and calculating, but I believe that service should be well-intentioned AND efficient.
Paula
December 30th, 2009 @ 12:05 am

Why does the compassionate service have to be a meal? Is there as much or more more value if we as sisters give non-standard service that better meets someone’s needs like childcare during after school hours, or taking kids somewhere fun, or folding laundry (and putting it away)?

Sue– Breast augmentation post and you not giving “two hoots” made me giggle!

QueenScarlett–Isn’t it amazing how much our early years influence our opinions of beauty? I grew up in Hawaii where being blonde, blue-eyed, and pale made me feel ugly. Your Asian features were what I longed for!

Heidi– Amen.
Jan
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:20 am

I have a brother who had gastric-bypass surgery in his 20s to try to control his morbid obesity. It didn’t work for him and he has struggled all his life with weight.

I have a niece who was hospitalized for anorexia for 3 months – $10,000 a month out of pocket because insurance doesn’t cover “elective” treatments like that even though she would have died without it.

I have a friend who had so much back pain she researched breast-reduction surgery for years trying to decide if that was best for her.

The only problem I have is the sales ladies that shove a mirror in your face to spotlight the lines and wrinkles, then computer image your face to show what a hag you will be if you don’t drop $100 on 1 oz of anti-aging serum or get Botox.

Let’s just love each other folks and not judge. The world judges us enough, sisters.
anon this time
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:20 am

When I was a teen all I wanted was something to make my large pores and chicken pox scars on my face go away. Finally, at 17, my parents said okay. I went to the doctor, realized everything that this entailed, and didn’t go through with it. Too scared. I’m all right with my decision, but every once in a while, I still wish I’d done it.

My cousin had a breast reduction at age 18. She said it’s one of the best things she ever did.

My daughter went through many years of braces, root canals, and her front teeth are all capped. She really needs jaw surgery to correct her bite. Since she was 17 when it was finally an option, we told her it was her choice. She said “I know when Christ comes I will be made perfect. I can wait.” So she didn’t do it. And we didn’t push it. She still could use it, but it’s her choice.

As far as what others choose to do, it’s their choice. They get to live with their own decisions, and I get to live with mine. I just wish we would all be more open and loving. I wish we saw more tattooed, crazy haired, pierced people in church. Isn’t that where we all should be? Learning to live and love others just as Christ did? I have a friend who won’t come to church anymore because of comments made about his long hair. How sad is that? I have a brother who won’t go to church because some well intentioned (I’m sure) helpful person said that his Birks were inappropriate footwear. Come on! Two things at play here. 1.Don’t judge others. 2.Don’t take offense.

As for meals, I’m not sure how I feel. It’s hard to ask people to bring them, but it’s also hard to not take them to everyone who needs them, because, let’s face it, everyone needs a break once in a while. I am now in an RS Presidency and it is eye-opening to see all the need that surrounds me in my ward that I thought was so stable. I just wish I had the means to provide help to everyone that I see that needs it. I have also learned that sometimes, not doing something, is an answer too.

Great post Dalene. Very thought provoking.
Kelly
December 30th, 2009 @ 7:26 am

I don’t believe that there is anything immoral about plastic surgery. I can completely understand that it can be necessary for medical reasons and for repair after an accident. I can’t understand as completely the decision to use it simply to look better, but the posts here have helped me a bit. One of our visiting teaching messages a few years ago defined charity as giving others the benefit of the doubt. I think that applies here.

As to bringing meals over, that would depend on the resources of the wards. I would hope that need would be the consideration and not how “worthy” the cause or whether surgery was “elective.” I will always be grateful for the meals that people brought to my family after the births of each of my children.

I think that the doctrine of the resurrection can help us. On my mission, I complained about my countless bug bites, sunburns, and such. My wise Guatemalan companion simply replied, ” I know that in the resurrection, we will have perfected bodies.” That silenced my complaints and gives me hope even today as bug bite scars seem less troubling than the changes that have come to my body after a few pregnancies.

I am grateful for a husband that makes me feel beautiful and confident about my body. I probably shouldn’t rely on him for that, but he makes me feel beautiful.

On a side note, I don’t actually know anyone here in my town that has had an elective surgery such as breast enhancement. On a recent visit to Utah I was surprised at the numerous billboards dedicated to this subject. I even drove by a new building that I discovered was a “Plastic Surgery Center.” I asked my mother, who lives in Los Angeles, if she has seen billboards for plastic surgery there. She said that she has not. Is plastic surgery more common in Utah or are those doctors just trying to increase their business?
CS Eric
December 30th, 2009 @ 7:48 am

There is a huge difference between not bringing meals or providing other kinds of service because the ward doesn’t have enough resources to help everyone with everything they need, and not doing it because the person doesn’t “deserve” it. Christ taught that we will receive gthe same judgment that we give. Knowing that, I have a hard time saying someone else doesn’t “deserve” service, because that means that I don’t really “deserve” anything from Him. I don’t want to go there.

Again, I am surprised at the tone and level of judgment in some of the comments on this post. This is SEGULLAH, for goodness’ sake! The really is the last blog where I expected to see commenters justify their unwillingness to serve fellow saints. I can understand an inability to serve, but not the level of unwillingness to serve.
Beth
December 30th, 2009 @ 12:14 pm

This has been an interesting post to read. It seems that most people would agree that corrective surgery for injuries/accidents/serious deformities/reduction of heavy and painful bossoms/etc. are legitimate reasons to have it done. I think that is why plastic surgery was invented in the first place – to help people with REAL problems. That is a wonderful thing!

However, something good and helpful has been perverted by the pornography industry and has slowly become so mainstream that, now faithful sisters are getting large fake breasts, not even knowing the history of how they came to be so common in our society. I wish women (especially mothers with daughters) would really research the history of getting breast implants before they do – I think they would be truly shocked to find out that the popularity of this proceedure came from the porn industry. Instead, these women are getting a set of DD’s and claiming they are doing it to feel more womanly or because they deserve it after motherhood. Some further claim that the Lord inspired them to go ahead with that choice, and I am wondering if they are perhaps not as in tune with the spirit as they claim to be. Maybe the answer they are hearing is what they want and choose to hear??

I myself am a small busted woman, even smaller now after nursing babies, and I feel no less womanly because I don’t have DD’s. In fact, I am saddened that my mother and three of my sister-in-laws all went this extreme route, choosing augmentations much larger than the Lord ever graced their bodies with in their prime, meanwhile teaching their daughters that tatoos and double pierced ears are wrong (read “For the Strength of Youth”). These ladies are missing the point of what they are telling their own daughters vs. what they are teaching their daughters by example. While their words say to follow the prophet’s counsel, their actions are telling their daughters, my daughter, and even me (who is small busted) that there is something wrong with you if your body doesn’t fit society’s idea of perfection, and that it needs to be fixed. It is so sad to me!

Oh, and some would argue it is no different than shaving or coloring your hair. But there is a tremendous difference between keeping your temple clean, healthy and attractive, and remodeling/desecrating/deforming that temple. Our bretheren have couseled us to take care of ourselves and do our best to look nice and be healthy, but they have warned about the dangers of vanity and conceit in a world where body image is more important than the inner woman.

I have a daughter and I intend to do my best to teach her that she is beautiful, and lovely just as she is, and that no set of fake boobs (or other unnecessary appearance altering surgery) could ever make her truly prettier, more desirable or more special. In fact, I think that is what Heavenly Father would want her to feel. After all she is a daughter of God, and I know in my heart that he wouldn’t want her to succumb to vanity and peer pressure…that isn’t helping her spirit.

As for meals for these gals, I think if they can afford $5-10K for breast implants, then I don’t think it’s a big deal for them to make arrangements and order out for a few days. They can obviously afford it, and frankly, I think there are sooo many more people in need of compassionate service that should get those meals instead (lonely elderly, moms with new babies, families with a health crisis, families with a financial crisis, someone who had an accident, etc, etc.). And like some of the other readers wrote, the women who are performing the compassionate service are sacrificing of their own means to help someone, which is why I think it’s important to make sure that sacrifice is made for those truly in needy, and not for those pursuing extravagant desires.
Vivie
December 30th, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

Beth (and others)
As a plastic surgery recipient, I just want to go on record as saying that after my surgery, I never once hoped to receive a meal or any other service from my fellow relief society members. I would be willing to bet that other recipients had no expectations as well. Is there validity to the idea that we should not give service to those can can afford to buy their own takeout meals? I have never felt entitled to receive service from others, whatever my circumstances have been. I have, however, felt that I am absolutely obligated, as a person who has become a follower of Christ and has covenanted to act in His name, to serve those around me, regardless of their circumstances and what I perceive their motives, their level of righteousness, or their feelings of self worth to be. It is weird to me that, instead of talking about all the ways we may serve others and spread kindness to those around us, we are having a discussion on the evils of plastic surgery and whether we should give service to those we feel are not worthy to receive it.
Vivie
December 30th, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

One more tiny thing. Not all plastic surgery recipients are the proud owners of a “set of DD’s”.
Geo
December 30th, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

I don’t have anything to add here except my thanks to all of you for an interesting discussion. It fits in perfectly with a chat my husband and I had over breakfast this morning. (And no, I’m not planning a boob job or any other alterations.)
CS Eric
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:04 pm

Vivie (#79), said:

“It is weird to me that, instead of talking about all the ways we may serve others and spread kindness to those around us, we are having a discussion on … whether we should give service to those we feel are not worthy to receive it.”

Amen.
Tay
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

QueenScarlett – I love how Asians look. So beautiful, smooth, regal … I don’t know. All of it. Especially their eyes and hair.

As the lone redhead in my family, I’ve gotten a lot of flack for that. You know, like it’s my fault I have red hair. I always wanted to dye it black or a really awesome blonde. Luckily my mother never allowed that and I grew to appreciate and then love my red hair. I am, however, very sensitive to people comparing it to the color orange. Because it’s not orange thankyouverymuch.

And after experiencing flat-chestedness I totally get the breast implant desire. But then I experienced having a C-cup while I was pregnant and nursing. And realized that I missed my flat chest. Because I didn’t have to worry about cleavage. It was nice to realize that I really did like not having a chest. But I realize that not everyone feels the same way. I was just fortunate enough to experience what I thought I wanted before I was done having kids and decided to take surgical action.

My cousin is opposite of me. Dark hair, dark eyes – beautiful. But she would love to have a breast reduction. And I absolutely do not think she’d regret it. Her back would feel better, she would fit into shirts better, etc. And if she decided to do it, I would punch anybody who said anything negative to her about it. Because she won’t do it until she feels like it’s the right thing to do.

I think this is like how we decide to have kids or not to have kids, and our judgements or misunderstandings have no place being out in the open. Keep it to ourselves or move on.
anonymous
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

Vivie – Incredibly well put.

I think that the real issue here is not about the surgeries themselves. I think that it’s about the service. I know that providing meals is a common way of giving service to others, but it is not the only way. Sure, if you have the time and the money, buy or make somebody dinner. That is a helpful thing to do. But sometimes even dropping in to say hello and let somebody know that they are in your thoughts is enough. And just because somebody chose to have a breast implants doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve a little help. Whether you agree with the action or not, they are still our friends, family, neighbors, and sisters in the Gospel, and we should love them and try to help and serve them despite our personal opinions.

Oh, and Beth – I think that it is non of your business what someone feels they receive from the Spirit. Just because you don’t agree with breast augmentation or whatever other surgeries you believe are evil, doesn’t mean that they are wrong in every case. And, frankly, that decision is between a woman, her husband, and her God, and has nothing to do with you. It is not your place to say that revelation given to one woman is false because you believe that in MOST cases it’s wrong.

Thank you, Dalene, for posting this. It’s obviously made us all think, and I, for one, applaud the brave women who did something to enrich their lives and the lives of those they love. Two of my family members have now had the Lapband surgery or other means of surgical weight loss. I have heard multiple times from multiple people that they made a mistake, or that they clearly went against the Church’s teachings of “appreciating your temple the way God made it”. But I don’t think that He judges them for increasing the quality as well as the quantity of their lives. In the case of one of these family members, we were told that without the surgery, they would have five years or less to live. I don’t care that it took a controversial surgery to give them more time. Having them here to be at my wedding, the births of my children, and other important family events makes it worth it to me.
Beth
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:54 pm

Gosh, when someone responds directly to me (siting my name) instead of generically to the group, I sort of feel personally scolded for not 100% agreeing with you! I thought the concept was to share opinions and let everyone have a voice so we can grow together. Sorry for having an opinion that is different from someone else…yikes!

Maybe I can clarify where I am coming from…the jist of what I believe on this topic is that we are all free to decide for ourselves and do what we want in all areas of life. Good or bad for our spirits, we choose. Some things are just more obviously black and white than others. All I’m trying to say is that I try to look to the counsel that the bretheren have given us on the subject and live accordingly. I certainly am not physically perfect, and like most women secretly would love to be a great beauty, but at the same time, I am confident in the fact that I am a daughter of God and I choose to honor my personal temple according to that belief. And I care about the example that I set for the women, YW, and girls in my life.

The same goes for compassionate service…following the direction of the brethren, it is meant to show love and compassion to those in need. I am grateful for each time I have the opportunity to do so. And I don’t think it is bad to say that such service should go to those most in need of it.

Honestly, I’m not trying to say anything bad or make anyone upset…just share a viewpoint, which I though was the point of the blog and responses, right??
Beth
December 30th, 2009 @ 1:58 pm

P.S. I NEVER ever used the word EVIL or even implied it…that’s not fair that you would comment back (using my name) and make such a statement. That’s really kind of mean…again, isn’t the point of a discussion to share opinions without attacking one another??
Vivie
December 30th, 2009 @ 2:11 pm

Beth,(addressing you personally here, just to apologize.)

“Beth (and others)”
I think you missed the (and others) part. I didn’t mean to imply that YOU said plastic surgery was evil. Perhaps it would have been better if I had said the “merits” of plastic surgery, not the “evils”. I am sorry for not communicating this correctly. I didn’t mean my comment to come off as an attack on you personally, just as a general observation of how this type of discussion always seems to go. Sorry for hurting your feelings.
Kathryn Soper
December 30th, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

Thank you for this valuable post, Dalene and friends, and for the discussion, everyone. It’s not easy to have a balanced conversation about such a sensitive topic. You all are doing a great job of it, and I’m learning a lot.

jendoop (#51), I love your station-wagon comment. These past few days my kids have been teasing me about my overstretched stomach. I enjoy asking them, “How exactly do you think that happened?”
Vivie
December 30th, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

Here I am again. (Hopefully for the last time. Sorry for this thread hijacking.)
I just realized that maybe you weren’t even talking to me, Beth. However, my apology still stands.
Beth
December 30th, 2009 @ 2:42 pm

Vivie, that is very sweet of you and I appreciate it so much!

Honestly the worst was an anonymous writer who wrote my name and then said that I think plastic surgery is evil, which is not what I said at all; and even though no one can see my face right now I was really embarrassed when I read my name associated with that!

I’ve never been brave enough to comment on articles I read here; I guess now I know why. I honestly am not trying to say whether anyone is good or bad – I was just sharing my view, and I respect that everone else else has their view too. I just hate for my words to be twisted into something that they weren’t meant to be, and I’m sure everyone here would feel that way too.

Glancing back through this, it’s a completely mixed bag of opinions, and lots of people said the same things I did, so I guess I am suprised anyone would pick on me and not just be nice and share their opinion too. But “anonymous” taught me my lesson on sharing in blogland, so thank you for that, harsh anonymous writer, I won’t be doing that again!
eljee
December 30th, 2009 @ 2:58 pm

Beth, I actually enjoyed your comment very much and agreed with most of it on a macro-level. While I believe that individuals have the right to choose and receive revelation for themselves, and that none of us can know what answers people have or have not received, I also think the issues you brought up are so important to discuss. What are the forces at work that make women feel like they aren’t “enough” just the way they are, and what kinds of messages are we sending to our children/waht impact are we ourselves having on the culture in which we live when we make various choices? I think that’s an important and worthy thing to discuss.

As far as the meals thing, well, I agree with those who say that we need to be careful when we put limits on service and that sometimes the emotional benefit of the service is as important as the physical. I’ve been lucky enough to receive meals after the adoptions of both of my children, yet I have friends who have not because people assumed that since they hadn’t given birth, the didn’t “need” meals. For me, I absolutely physically did need that help. Having a baby in any way, especially at the last minute, is a life-altering experience, and I felt like I’d been run over by a truck both times. But the greater benefit was emotional: receiving meals in our LDS culture is almost part of the rite-of-passage of becoming a mother, and emotionally I needed that pampering, that little service that said, “Welcome to motherhood.”
al
December 30th, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

Amen to Vivie! I agree with everything you wrote.

My MIL got her implants 3 years ago. I think she’s a full B cup now, maybe a small C. Definitely NOT a DD!

She looks very normal…not like a porn star at all.
III
December 30th, 2009 @ 3:50 pm

from wondering where we draw the line (comment #55):”I guess, in the most respectful way possible, I’m wondering how people who’ve had cosmetic surgery reconciled the expense of it with their sense of charity towards others, globally and locally. How can you see the Christian coallition commercials and not feel rotten about not sending the 25 cents a day?”

That’s a great question, and something I think that on some level we’ve all struggled with: is this the best way I could be spending my [resources - money, time, etc.], particularly when there are so many who have so much less than I? As for myself, regarding the monetary cost of the procedure, my husband and I both looked at it as an investment in my health and therefore worth the cost. As for how we allot our money toward charities, globally and locally, that is certainly something that we participate in but choose to keep the specifics private, about which I’m hopeful that people understand (I would hope that no one would deign demand someone’s accounting of their personal finances toward charity for any reason).

Thanks for the question.
dalene
December 30th, 2009 @ 4:50 pm

I realize it’s time consuming to sift through all the comments, but I feel the need to restate:

This post was never about the food.

I started off the post by mentioning the debate over taking in a meal simply to bring up the stigma against people who have these types of surgeries. The post is about respecting the right of everyone to choose for themselves–not just the people who choose the same things we choose–and about trading in judgment for a little love and understanding.

Let me add that just as we have agency over what we do with our bodies, I also believe we also have agency over how we spend our money–and it’s nobody else’s business.

It is no more my place to judge someone for spending money on any surgery (plastic, lasik, c-section–oh yeah, some people choose those sometimes, too) than it is to judge someone for purchasing a nicer car than mine, a larger home, a summer home, a home theater system, or an iPhone.
namakemono
December 30th, 2009 @ 5:49 pm

re #18 “darned if I can ever find out who needs my help around here. Everything, every need, is so hush-hush and “respect their privacy” that I feel like the true goal of Relief Society–to provide relief–is not being met”

I feel the same in our ward here in Japan – if you are not one of the “inner circle” you know nothing about anything!
E
December 30th, 2009 @ 7:47 pm

#25, Heather, well said. The Lord is NOT the one telling us our bodies are ugly. I do not think all cosmetic surgeries are mistakes, but I do not believe the Lord ever instructed anyone to get “porn boobs”.
S
December 30th, 2009 @ 8:27 pm

Oh man, are we going down this ugly road again? Can we try not to lump everyone together in the “all fake boobs are porn boobs”? Could this not be considered snide and hurtful to some? Why do we think it is okay to say things along these lines (set of DD’s, porn boobs, etc) as if this is the only choice that is being made? Is righteous indignation about something that truly isn’t our concern an excuse for this kind of dismissive and unkind classification?
Lisa
December 30th, 2009 @ 8:35 pm

Here’s a cool quote on the subject from Jeffrey Holland, Apostle of the Church:
“I plead with you young women to please be more accepting of yourselves, including your body shape and style, with a little less longing to look like someone else. We are all different. Some are tall, and some are short. Some are round, and some are thin. And almost everyone at some time or other wants to be something they are not! But as one adviser to teenage girls said: “You can’t live your life worrying that the world is staring at you. When you let people’s opinions make you self-conscious you give away your power. … The key to feeling [confident] is to always listen to your inner self—[the real you.]” 8 And in the kingdom of God, the real you is “more precious than rubies.” 9 Every young woman is a child of destiny and every adult woman a powerful force for good. I mention adult women because, sisters, you are our greatest examples and resource for these young women. And if you are obsessing over being a size 2, you won’t be very surprised when your daughter or the Mia Maid in your class does the same and makes herself physically ill trying to accomplish it. We should all be as fit as we can be—that’s good Word of Wisdom doctrine. That means eating right and exercising and helping our bodies function at their optimum strength. We could probably all do better in that regard. But I speak here of optimum health; there is no universal optimum size.

Frankly, the world has been brutal with you in this regard. You are bombarded in movies, television, fashion magazines, and advertisements with the message that looks are everything! The pitch is, “If your looks are good enough, your life will be glamorous and you will be happy and popular.” That kind of pressure is immense in the teenage years, to say nothing of later womanhood. In too many cases too much is being done to the human body to meet just such a fictional (to say nothing of superficial) standard. As one Hollywood actress is reported to have said recently: “We’ve become obsessed with beauty and the fountain of youth. … I’m really saddened by the way women mutilate [themselves] in search of that. I see women [including young women] … pulling this up and tucking that back. It’s like a slippery slope. [You can’t get off of it.] … It’s really insane … what society is doing to women.” 10

In terms of preoccupation with self and a fixation on the physical, this is more than social insanity; it is spiritually destructive, and it accounts for much of the unhappiness women, including young women, face in the modern world. And if adults are preoccupied with appearance—tucking and nipping and implanting and remodeling everything that can be remodeled—those pressures and anxieties will certainly seep through to children. At some point the problem becomes what the Book of Mormon called “vain imaginations.” 11 And in secular society both vanity and imagination run wild. One would truly need a great and spacious makeup kit to compete with beauty as portrayed in media all around us. Yet at the end of the day there would still be those “in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers” as Lehi saw, 12 because however much one tries in the world of glamour and fashion, it will never be glamorous enough.

A woman not of our faith once wrote something to the effect that in her years of working with beautiful women she had seen several things they all had in common, and not one of them had anything to do with sizes and shapes. She said the loveliest women she had known had a glow of health, a warm personality, a love of learning, stability of character, and integrity. If we may add the sweet and gentle Spirit of the Lord carried by such a woman, then this describes the loveliness of women in any age or time, every element of which is emphasized in and attainable through the blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
suedonym
December 30th, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

I think many of us here need to remember that, at least in the case of women 2 and 3, these decisions were made for HEALTH reasons. I would also assume that in the case of woman 1, mental health played a part in her decision.

Please do not discount the fact that these women prayed about and consulted their family’s regarding their decision. How can we honestly judge when that is the case?
Cheri
December 30th, 2009 @ 9:00 pm

To #96: I may be wrong, but I think #95 meant to be making a distinction between a moderate enhancement and a more exaggerated one.
La Yen
December 30th, 2009 @ 9:30 pm

Again, I say, WHY IS THIS AN ISSUE? Things I think we should be more concerned with:
Our fellow sisters who do not feel the need to attend the temple.
Our fellow sisters who are struggling with personal testimonies.
Our fellow sisters who are struggling with addictions, both personal and within their families.
Members of the church who are content to be “social members,” rather than actively growing and learning in the gospel.
Sisters who are lonely, miserable, and despondent, and feel that they have no one to turn to.
Sisters who are learning to be mothers while they break the (sometimes generations-old) cycle of abuse and neglect.
Sisters who want to be loved by the Lord and the ward, but feel that they have “sinned too much” to ever come back.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg (at least in my ward).

We are all incredibly intelligent, thoughtful women, who have a desire to change the world for better. We all have a tremendous capacity for love and tolerance, friendship and forgiveness. And yet it seems that we are ACTIVELY involved in a campaign to belittle and disparage those who have opened their lives and their hearts to us, in an attempt to foster tolerance. They have shared that they have prayed and fasted and received personal revelation and we are ignoring that in order to advance our personal disdain of their choices and, in some cases, tell them that they must have been mistaken about their confirmations from the Holy Ghost.
Maybe you would never have a cosmetic surgery. Good for you. Maybe you want to have three hundred cosmetic surgeries. Good for you. Your life and your decisions are yours to make. And whether you arrive at the judgment seat in a “beat up station wagon” or in a sweet, tricked out luxury SUV, I know that I will be thrilled to see you there, because you are my sister and you made it. The end.
Dalene
December 30th, 2009 @ 9:43 pm

La Yen–Amen.
ErinAnn
December 30th, 2009 @ 10:09 pm

If a sister in your ward decided to pursue her education further — complete a degree or obtain another — would you be willing to help her out? Why? If she can afford the cost of school, *surely* she can afford a babysitter now and then.

If a sister has scoliosis and decided to get a rod implanted in her back to straighten her out — you know, change the “temple from the way God made it” and make her look “normal” — would you take her a meal post-op? Offer to entertain her children? Tend to household chores?

If a sister finally accomplishes that fantastic goal of losing 80 extra flabby pounds and has “cosmetic” surgery to shape her saggy, flapping skin into a “normal” looking body, would you tend to her needs when she’s done getting nipped & tucked?

If a sister has a double masectomy and decides to get implants to return to how she used to look (or more) would you offer her service?

What if she trims off the saggy tummy, the joweled chin, straightens the nose she’s always hated, lifted her breasts from their post-nursing position near her belly button? AND her house is nicer than you could ever dare to imagine for yourself? Would you gladly pull your dumpy station wagon through the gates and up next to her shiny Audi? Would you make a tasty and filling meal to tend to the family’s needs? Would you ask her how she’s feeling, if there’s something that you can help her with?

Pride comes from the bottom up too.
CS Eric
December 30th, 2009 @ 10:22 pm

ErinAnn,

I think I love you.

That is all.
Michelle L.
December 30th, 2009 @ 10:57 pm

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