Comments on: The Politics of Exclusion http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/ Mormon women blogging about the peculiar and the treasured Thu, 24 May 2012 01:42:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Leisha http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-57349 Leisha Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:23:44 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-57349 I'm always a bit late commenting...darn it! I truly think it's human nature. I find the same inclusion/exclusion problems within companies and school room mothers and in my kid's preschool and 1st grade classrooms as I do at church. For me...when I have been one of the members of the girlfriend clique that excluded others...it was mostly about insecurity and fear of losing friends. It sounds silly to say that out loud. But it's true. I'm such a shy person and it takes a lot of effort for me to make close/good friends. Once I have them...I don't want to lose them to others. Selfish and petty and ridiculous? Yes. I also think you lose out on something if you spend all your time being friends with everyone. I crave close and intimate friendships...not just gabby girlfriends. It's always been a struggle for me to always include everyone, even though I know exactly how craptacular it feels to be excluded. I don't know...I expect if including people is a struggle for you personally, it is like most things. Whatever is most comfortable isn't the "right" thing to do. I would feel most comfortable sitting in front of my tv in jammies all day stuffing chocolates in my mouth...but I have to actually get up and exercise and eat oatmeal and do what is right. I think including everyone is the same thing. It may not always feel comfortable and it may be difficult, but it's the right thing to do. We have to go against the grain of the "natural man" or our "instincts" and do what's right. I admire those that do it well. I’m always a bit late commenting…darn it!

I truly think it’s human nature. I find the same inclusion/exclusion problems within companies and school room mothers and in my kid’s preschool and 1st grade classrooms as I do at church.

For me…when I have been one of the members of the girlfriend clique that excluded others…it was mostly about insecurity and fear of losing friends. It sounds silly to say that out loud. But it’s true. I’m such a shy person and it takes a lot of effort for me to make close/good friends. Once I have them…I don’t want to lose them to others. Selfish and petty and ridiculous? Yes.

I also think you lose out on something if you spend all your time being friends with everyone. I crave close and intimate friendships…not just gabby girlfriends. It’s always been a struggle for me to always include everyone, even though I know exactly how craptacular it feels to be excluded.

I don’t know…I expect if including people is a struggle for you personally, it is like most things. Whatever is most comfortable isn’t the “right” thing to do. I would feel most comfortable sitting in front of my tv in jammies all day stuffing chocolates in my mouth…but I have to actually get up and exercise and eat oatmeal and do what is right.

I think including everyone is the same thing. It may not always feel comfortable and it may be difficult, but it’s the right thing to do. We have to go against the grain of the “natural man” or our “instincts” and do what’s right. I admire those that do it well.

]]> By: Claudia http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-55380 Claudia Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:26:08 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-55380 When I was in high school my best friend moved away one summer. I remember on the first day of school in the fall I didn't know anyone in any of my classes. It was horrible I was so distressed. It is one thing to sit alone in a class and another to sit alone at lunch. So I was really down in the mouth. When I got home my mother asked how the day had gone. Since I was feeling pretty sorry for myself I told her my story of woe. She told me I didn't have to be lonely and left out. Surely there were others in my school I could be friends with. Surely there was someone who had moved in who was looking for a friend as well. So, the next day I made just a little effort during PE and found a girl who was new. Together we found another and before long we had our own group. I learned from that. I never turn down an invitation. I never sit on an empty row, unless I want to be alone. I try to smile and be friendly--this does not come easy as I would rather sit out in a corner and wait for life to come to me. Although I rarely feel like part of the in crowd most of the people don't know that. I just hang around the edges when I am really scared. Sometimes I manage to get right in the thick of things. I am really bad at this making friends thing. I feel threatened even as I write about it, all the while knowing that there are some people who don't understand and believe I am an unfriendly snob. When I was in high school my best friend moved away one summer. I remember on the first day of school in the fall I didn’t know anyone in any of my classes. It was horrible I was so distressed. It is one thing to sit alone in a class and another to sit alone at lunch. So I was really down in the mouth.

When I got home my mother asked how the day had gone. Since I was feeling pretty sorry for myself I told her my story of woe. She told me I didn’t have to be lonely and left out. Surely there were others in my school I could be friends with. Surely there was someone who had moved in who was looking for a friend as well.

So, the next day I made just a little effort during PE and found a girl who was new. Together we found another and before long we had our own group.

I learned from that. I never turn down an invitation. I never sit on an empty row, unless I want to be alone. I try to smile and be friendly–this does not come easy as I would rather sit out in a corner and wait for life to come to me. Although I rarely feel like part of the in crowd most of the people don’t know that. I just hang around the edges when I am really scared. Sometimes I manage to get right in the thick of things. I am really bad at this making friends thing. I feel threatened even as I write about it, all the while knowing that there are some people who don’t understand and believe I am an unfriendly snob.

]]> By: Dalene http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54382 Dalene Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:40:32 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54382 Interesting, because I have rarely seen "pack" behavior displayed by men (except maybe on the basektball court), but I've seen some women be pretty adept at it ever since I was in jr. high. Women can be very territorial. Just an observation... Interesting, because I have rarely seen “pack” behavior displayed by men (except maybe on the basektball court), but I’ve seen some women be pretty adept at it ever since I was in jr. high. Women can be very territorial.

Just an observation…

]]> By: Justine http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54244 Justine Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:55:41 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54244 So sorry, John. But whenever the word 'pack' arises in a conversation, I just get the irrepressible inclination toward all things masculine. I'll work hard to get over it.;) So sorry, John. But whenever the word ‘pack’ arises in a conversation, I just get the irrepressible inclination toward all things masculine.

I’ll work hard to get over it.;)

]]> By: John David Payne http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54231 John David Payne Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:25:14 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54231 >> Why does one pack have to dominate another? Why do we have to dominate at all — isn’t that kind of, umm, testosterone laden? >> As a testosterone-laden male, I feel excluded by your characterization of my sex as a pack of dominators. Just, you know, FYI... >>
Why does one pack have to dominate another? Why do we have to dominate at all — isn’t that kind of, umm, testosterone laden?
>>

As a testosterone-laden male, I feel excluded by your characterization of my sex as a pack of dominators. Just, you know, FYI…

]]> By: Amy http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54066 Amy Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:05:29 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54066 Honestly, I think this is part of the "natural woman." I've been watching my daughter and the girls in YW in our ward, and it is so clear to me that the motivations behind exclusion are to make yourself somehow SAFE in a friendship---if I leave you out first, then you're OUT and I am, at least, IN. I think that some of it is based on personality. I do remember very clearly when my mostly-inactive family decided to return to church activity. I was so angry that my mom expected me to all of a sudden be friends with the girls who had exluded me when we weren't active. I think I'm now one of those women who seems like she's snobby and isolated and maybe hard to make friends with---like I enjoy solitude---but in all honestly it is simply hard to reach out after too much exclusion. I have made some friends in my ward who I value SO much, but I've never really felt like I "fit." It's sometimes less painful to keep to yourself. Honestly, I think this is part of the “natural woman.” I’ve been watching my daughter and the girls in YW in our ward, and it is so clear to me that the motivations behind exclusion are to make yourself somehow SAFE in a friendship—if I leave you out first, then you’re OUT and I am, at least, IN. I think that some of it is based on personality.

I do remember very clearly when my mostly-inactive family decided to return to church activity. I was so angry that my mom expected me to all of a sudden be friends with the girls who had exluded me when we weren’t active.

I think I’m now one of those women who seems like she’s snobby and isolated and maybe hard to make friends with—like I enjoy solitude—but in all honestly it is simply hard to reach out after too much exclusion. I have made some friends in my ward who I value SO much, but I’ve never really felt like I “fit.” It’s sometimes less painful to keep to yourself.

]]> By: Angie http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54047 Angie Fri, 08 Feb 2008 02:05:00 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-54047 Yeah, I certainly felt snubbed alot growing up. I think it had everything to do with my family not being active in the Church. I was the only religious one until my early teen years, then I left for a period of years, and my leaving had alot to do with not feeling welcome. It was interesting when i became active. I had lived in the same neighborhood for 5 years and not gotton to know anyone except my single mother and gay next-door-neighbors. Then in a period of a couple of months I had a dozens of Mormon neighbors inviting me to do different things. I imagine they didn't think i was interested in them until I started showing up at church. I hope those friendships would have continued if I had stopped attending, although I didn't have the opportunity to find out. Yeah, I certainly felt snubbed alot growing up. I think it had everything to do with my family not being active in the Church. I was the only religious one until my early teen years, then I left for a period of years, and my leaving had alot to do with not feeling welcome. It was interesting when i became active. I had lived in the same neighborhood for 5 years and not gotton to know anyone except my single mother and gay next-door-neighbors. Then in a period of a couple of months I had a dozens of Mormon neighbors inviting me to do different things. I imagine they didn’t think i was interested in them until I started showing up at church. I hope those friendships would have continued if I had stopped attending, although I didn’t have the opportunity to find out.

]]> By: Natalie http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-53954 Natalie Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:19:21 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-53954 I felt snubbed sometimes while I was growing up. I figured it was a combination of our ward's caste system, our family problems, our level of activity and my parents being converts vs. people who had pioneer ancestors - they hadn't been members all their lives and didn't know how to "play the game." We weren't the typical LDS family. It's too bad, because I think if we had been shown more kindness, more of my family members might be active now. When someone is struggling with his testimony AND doesn't feel wanted or welcome, the desire to show up at church drops way off. We all had our choices, and it wasn't our ward's responsibility to hold our hands all the way to church. But there were times when we felt like the ward's "problem family" - and instead of trying to help, some ward members' attitude seemed to be "Avoid them, or you'll catch what they have." The ward I'm in now could not be more "ward family." Those people have our back. I felt snubbed sometimes while I was growing up. I figured it was a combination of our ward’s caste system, our family problems, our level of activity and my parents being converts vs. people who had pioneer ancestors – they hadn’t been members all their lives and didn’t know how to “play the game.” We weren’t the typical LDS family. It’s too bad, because I think if we had been shown more kindness, more of my family members might be active now. When someone is struggling with his testimony AND doesn’t feel wanted or welcome, the desire to show up at church drops way off.

We all had our choices, and it wasn’t our ward’s responsibility to hold our hands all the way to church. But there were times when we felt like the ward’s “problem family” – and instead of trying to help, some ward members’ attitude seemed to be “Avoid them, or you’ll catch what they have.”

The ward I’m in now could not be more “ward family.” Those people have our back.

]]> By: Angie http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-53923 Angie Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:59:25 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-53923 It's interesting how different wards develop their own cultures. There are so many factors that can contribute to that, and I think many of them are not related to good or bad intentions of the members. I don't think my current ward is at all cliquish. It is small, and everyone seems to be invited everywhere, rather than being divided by age or interest levels. Because we are in a remote geographical area I think there is also more of an expectation among the members that we will support each other and function as a ward family. The ward where I felt the least welcome was very large and growing very quickly, and I think that none of us could really keep track of who was who. Also, many people in that area were very involved with their extended families and with LDS friends in other local wards. I can think of a handful of times that I felt intentionally snubbed over the years, but overall that experience has been the exception for me. It’s interesting how different wards develop their own cultures. There are so many factors that can contribute to that, and I think many of them are not related to good or bad intentions of the members. I don’t think my current ward is at all cliquish. It is small, and everyone seems to be invited everywhere, rather than being divided by age or interest levels. Because we are in a remote geographical area I think there is also more of an expectation among the members that we will support each other and function as a ward family. The ward where I felt the least welcome was very large and growing very quickly, and I think that none of us could really keep track of who was who. Also, many people in that area were very involved with their extended families and with LDS friends in other local wards. I can think of a handful of times that I felt intentionally snubbed over the years, but overall that experience has been the exception for me.

]]> By: Family of 7 http://segullah.org/daily-special/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-53914 Family of 7 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:42:54 +0000 http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-politics-of-exclusion/#comment-53914 Thank You Justine. I was thinking about our committee setting some goals to help us with our assignment. I love your thoughts on providing Sisters opportunities to feel the Spirit. The Spirit is the key we need to invite and listen to when trying to reach out to others. If we listen to the Spirit we can help ourselves as well. Thank you again to all who have posted. Thank You Justine. I was thinking about our committee setting some goals to help us with our assignment. I love your thoughts on providing Sisters opportunities to feel the Spirit. The Spirit is the key we need to invite and listen to when trying to reach out to others. If we listen to the Spirit we can help ourselves as well. Thank you again to all who have posted.

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