Touching the stove to see if it’s really hot

Posted by Dalene | January 29, 2010 | 36 Comments

I. A few years ago I was visiting my children’s elementary school, catching up with a friend of mine who teaches there. She asked about my older children who used to attend there and I told her they were mostly doing well, but recounted a difficult experience (now long forgotten) we’d been through with one of them. As I explained my frustration over being experienced enough to know what was better for my child, yet not being able to “make him” make the correct choice about something, another teacher caught our conversation in passing and piped in,

“That was the other plan.”

II. When my oldest child was about a year old we had the opportunity to move across the street from our tiny basement apartment into a very nice home for three weeks to care for our neighbors’ sons, ranging in age from preschool to high school. As we were getting our last-minute instructions as to their schedules and needs, I asked the mother about the curfew for the oldest son. She looked at me rather oddly and then replied, “He would never choose to be places he shouldn’t or be out at an unreasonable hour, so he doesn’t really have one.”

III. Recently I was giving one of my daughter’s friends a ride home and she brought up the serious consequences she’d been facing from home at the end of term had she not pulled up her grades to near perfection. We talked about the expectations placed on her to work hard and earn a good GPA. She stated that while she felt good about the results, her feelings were mixed. She believed that because her parents were so strict she was making choices out of fear, and not, necessarily, because she wanted to do and be good. That didn’t feel right to her.

*********

Parenting can be risky business. We are charged with responsibility for our children. Yet we have to balance that with allowing them the agency they need at various ages and stages to learn and grow. That balance can be different with every child. Allowing children agency to choose–and stepping out of the way so they can learn from the natural consequences of their choices–can, at times, make parenting a painful prospect.

It’s instinctual to want to protect our children. But while we have a responsibility to protect them from life-threatening situations, protecting them from the consequences of their own actions can be harmful as well. One, removing consequence from choice is contrary to the natural order and even purpose of our mortal lives. Two, it may send a message that the consequences themselves–rather than the choices that elicit them–are what’s wrong or bad, and therefore to be avoided, regardless of the choices. Three, stepping between a child and the results of his or her actions can allow the child to divert “blame” onto the parent, rather than learn to accept responsibility for his or her own choices.

The deeper I get into this parenting thing, the more I feel I may be in over my head. I used to think math was hard, but parenting is way harder.

I don’t really have any answers, but I’d love to hear your perspectives on the subject of parenting and agency. Particularly those of you with teenage and even adult children. Particularly those of you–if there be any besides myself–whose older aren’t perfect.

Do you find yourself thinking that when it comes to your own children, “the other plan” maybe wasn’t such a bad idea? (Padded rooms, bubble wrap, military school anyone?)

Do you ever find yourself wanting to run interference in order to protect your kids from the natural consequences of their choices? Why?

Do you have kids who seem to need more boundaries than others? More space? Or kids that seem to only learn things the hard way? How do you deal with that?

How do your own experiences as a child being parented by your own parents affect your parenting style?

Comments

36 Responses to “Touching the stove to see if it’s really hot”

Gerb
January 29th, 2010 @ 8:49 am

For me, a large part of the difficulty is in trying to accommodate for each child’s personality and needs without making the others feel as if they are being held to a stricter standard. (Does that make sense?) The dynamic in each family is so diverse that I think there has to be some adjustment for each kid, but it is hard to keep things “fair”. And how do you explain that to a kid without looking like you’re playing favorites?

I don’t have the answers. But this was very thought-provoking. I look forward to seeing what others have to say.
Dalene
January 29th, 2010 @ 8:55 am

Gerb–it makes perfect sense and I thank you for bringing that up. I have found myself trying–unsuccessfully of course–to a 14yo who doesn’t see why she needs different boundaries than her 18yo brother. And a 17yo who needed a curfew, even though his older brother really gave us cause to set one. I don’t know that we can explain it. Will our kids ever fully understand until they’re faced with the same parenting challenges that we face?
Katie
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:16 am

I happen to have the parenting philosophy that we never have control over our children, and that when we think we do it’s just an illusion. God gave our children free agency and we can never take that away. The only thing we can really control is ourselves, as parents. That means we can control the consequences our children will face for making choices, but we can never reach into our child’s head and force them to choose the right thing to begin with.

I definitely got this from my parents, who had very little self control and who were borderline abusive in their unsuccessful attempts to control their children. If you can’t control yourself, how in the world can you expect to teach your children to do the right things?

Anyway, my kids aren’t even past the toddler stage yet so maybe I don’t have any room to talk. This approach does help me stay sane when dealing with a 2 year old, though, because I keep the focus on what I can control (my behavior, which includes firm and consistent consequences) and I don’t get so angry about what I can’t control (my 2 year old’s behavior.)
Dalene
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:20 am

I like your approach, Katie–recognizing and focusing on what you can control. I know that will help me deal better with my teenagers. Thank you.
Janet
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:34 am

My two oldest daughters are married in the temple to RMs and really striving to live the gospel and teach it to their children. Then, I have a 26-year-old son who is a recovering drug addict, a 23-year-old son who doesn’t believe the Church is true. Followed by another daughter married in the temple to an RM currently serving as RS president in her student ward and my youngest, a senior son preparing for a college and a mission.

There you have it, six kids raised in the same home by the same parents, all using their God-given agency to make their way through life. I guess what I’m saying is I’ve learned that I am not the variable here. I love them all; they are good souls, but their choices are THEIR choices. I taught and loved and did the best I could.

In the midst of my oldest son’s 12-year struggle with addiction I got a lot of understanding and peace from the book, Parenting with Love and Logic. I highly recommend it. It helps you to understand your own natural parenting style (which may come from your personality along with the style your parents used) and gives you understanding and ways to cope with difficult children.

Through the difficulties of raising six children I have come to know and love my Heavenly Father and His plan for His children which is based on unconditional love, agency, and unconditional consequences, which can be overcome through our Savior’s Atonement.
wonder woman
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:36 am

Great post and questions.

My kids are 3 and 5, so I’m just getting to this point, and obviously have no answers. I’m already struggling to teach my children basic consequences. Our biggest problem right now is making a choice, then wanting to change it once it’s been made. Sometimes it’s possible, but other times it’s just not. I can’t turn back time.

Growing up, I’d like to think I was a pretty easy teenager. I was the typical oldest child who just wanted to please my parents. My parents trusted me, and I never really gave them a reason not to. Things were different for my younger brother. He needed the boundaries, but resented that he had them when I didn’t. He pushed the rules every time, and has paid dire consequences because of it.

As a result, I want to give my children all of the same rules. When they prove their responsibility, I will grant more privileges, and make sure all the kids know why things are changing. Likewise, if (when) they prove that trusting them is more difficult, I want to make it clear why rules are being tightened.
Dalene
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:38 am

Janet–your story touches my heart and I so appreciate the truth of your words. Your last paragraph is just what I needed this morning. Thank you.
Dalene
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:44 am

wonder women–as an oldest child myself I find I have a hard time understanding my children who don’t feel that same sense of responsibility or have that same desire to maintain trust or to please. Birth order is yet another variable that can make this whole parenting thing so challenging at times. Interesting.
lee
January 29th, 2010 @ 9:57 am

I think a huge component in the puzzle is supervision. It strikes me that our church takes our most worthy 19 year olds and places them under constant supervision until they are 21. But parents leave 14-year olds home with the internet, 16 year olds alone with dates, kids with cars driving anywhere and everywhere.

It is very hard to know where are kids go, what they do, who they chat and text, what attitudes their friends have, what movies and media they consume. Constant supervision is, well, constant. Our job and it takes effort.

I realize supervision is not the ultimate answer, but at this age, its prevention that’s worth a pound of cure. Supervise them until the maturity kicks in, and influence them forever.
FoxyJ
January 29th, 2010 @ 10:02 am

My husband and I are both naturally ‘rule-oriented’ people and so struggle with a child who doesn’t really care much for authority or rules. She’s only 6, so it’s not like things are that bad, but sometimes it is baffling to us. My kids are only 6 and 3 so we’re pretty new to the game. One of the things I feel like we’re struggling with at this point are helping our kids feel capable and willing to do things for themselves. I know they are little, but one of our goals as parents is to help them grow up and be self-sufficient, yet it is already so tempting to just do everything for them. We’ve been giving my daughter (six) little chores, like folding and putting away her clean clothes and sometimes I totally have to fight her on it. She spent an hour the other day whining about putting away her things (I mostly ignored her) and it only took her ten minutes to do it when she actually did it. She is an oldest child but doesn’t seem to fit the stereotype. Anyways, we’ve had several family members and friends who have recently had kids reach young adulthood (18 or so) with no skills, no plans, no ambition, and so we’re trying to figure out how to get our kids to that point without that happening.

Another I feel like I struggle with is really understanding my kids’ personalities. I start to think ‘oh, they’re like this’ and then things change. We thought my daughter was totally stubborn, and then she turned 5 and changed. Not only does each kid have a different personality, but they will grow and change with different developmental stages.

Right now as parents we’ve realized that what we want is an overarching vision of what kind of adults we would like our children to be, and what things we think we should do to get there. My parents weren’t perfect, but one thing they always said is that ‘our job is to help you grow up and leave’. We are also working on fostering good emotional health as a family because neither of us got much of that when we were growing up.
jendoop
January 29th, 2010 @ 10:35 am

Wonder Woman, You are right, as parents we too often think we control things, that it’s all up to us. It isn’t, it’s up to Heavenly Father and he has a way for his wayward children (all of us) to return – the Atonement. When I have had a particularly bad parenting day I drop to my knees and ask for forgiveness, and also that the blessings of the atonement will rest on my children so they can heal from my sins and mistakes. It is one of the glorious parts of the atonement concept – that it can apply to everyone, throughout their entire life.

Foxy J – I’m not the parent of your children so I can’t give answers specific to your children (I very much believe in a parent’s ability to receive revelation for their children, members or not). I believe that getting that overarching vision of what kind of adults your children will be isn’t going to accurately happen. What children become as adults is up to them, it needs to be left to them. What I believe is our job as parents is to help our children obtain and develop the tools they need to become whatever they choose. I have a 15 year old daughter who amazes me, all she is becoming! I never envisioned all she is now, it was beyond my mortal understanding, all of the facets of her personality. But now that I see how she has grown over 15 years I can’t wait to see what she does with the rest of her life!

In discussing this topic it is important to point out that just because I believe in giving my children some leeway in exercising their agency, it doesn’t mean I’m hands off. One of the best ways to teach consequences and agency is to point out consequences occurring in children’s lives. Consequences, both good and bad, don’t often come immediately. We can help our children avoid confusion and frustration by gently pointing out the cause and effect relationships between a choice and the consequences.

I’ve seen the results of this with my own teenage daughter and I see the opposite with my 21 year old brother- who still lives at home, doesn’t have a job, didn’t serve a mission, doesn’t attend school…etc. It seems as though my mother feels guilty for her shortcomings as a parent and attempts to make up for it by trying to negate his consequences. It’s not healthy for either of them. I wish I could help her understand how the atonement applies to her parenting as I mentioned earlier in this very long comment
Carrot Jello
January 29th, 2010 @ 11:21 am

As the child of a controlling parent, I see now that my mother did this because she thought that our behavior, and our choices reflected badly on her. Like people would think she wasn’t perfect if she didn’t have perfect children. The result? Everybody falls apart after they leave the nest. Two of my sisters went through periods of not even talking to my mom. This has made me (and all of us) very cautious about how I (we) parent my (our) children, so in a way, it was good. However, I choose to let my kids make their own choices, whatever the result and however it reflects on me. I will guide them, teach them, give them suggestions, but in the end, they are the ones that have to make their own choices. That way, they have no one to blame but themselves for the consequences. Here, and in adulthood. Heaven knows I don’t want them blaming me for their behavior when their 40. Although, it still might happen.
Johnna
January 29th, 2010 @ 11:37 am

Dalene, I love that you’re talking about parenting teens. Real stories about the challenges of parenting teens are hard to find and talk about, because we care about the privacy of our children too.

This weekend, I’ll be at home grounding a kid who didn’t do her all homework this week. I don’t know anymore if it’s the most right or most effective approach, but as a parent the one thing you do know is you have to do something. Frex, I’ve heard I shouldn’t risk destroying the relationship over schoolwork (is weekend at home going to destroy the relationship?) because I’ll be without a line if something should come up in the sex or substance arena. But it’s not helping parent when I’m told to be afraid to do anything.
April
January 29th, 2010 @ 11:57 am

As a missionary in Argentina our Mission President was very strict. Sometimes I felt I had gone somewhere to pay for my sins rather then some place I choose. I can see now that he really just wanted to protect us while we were left in his care. However, I really had a hard time adjusting to regular life when my mission was over. I think that experience gave me an interesting perspective on parenting.
When we look at Heavenly Father’s plan, we can see that satan wanted to tell everyone what to do and how to get back to Heavenly Father. Then he wanted to take all the glory. While Jesus wanted to do our Father’s will which was to be an example, to teach, love and encourage us to follow him. In the end he had faith that we could do it. If we stumbled he would be there to offer forgiveness.
I think in our parenting we can learn a lot from Jesus’ ideas on how to get our children back to our Father in Heaven. Teach, love, encourage and have faith that they will make good decisions. We can also be there when they make mistakes to forgive them, rather then saying I told you so.
I think sometimes we would like to parent like satan, telling our children what to do and expecting them to follow. First to protect them and sometimes to show everyone what good parents we are.
In a strict home or a place like my mission you don’t know or forget the reasons why you are making the decisions you are making, because someone else is making decisions for you. You lose your agency and that hinders your spirit.
Good parenting takes faith in God’s plan. Faith to do our best and believe that God has the rest covered. Kids need the opportunity to develop their own moral compass and to make decisions on their own so they can build a testimony. It is hard to let children go but it is necessary for their spiritual growth.
Mex Davis
January 29th, 2010 @ 12:12 pm

I’ve always found that free agency is as hard on the parents as it is for the children. As many of you have said that because of some parent preventing their children to live through their consequences they have crippled their children for life. I find the hardest part of being a parent is that it is all on the job training. No matter how you plan out your actions the kids just don’t go along with your thoughts. They are your greatest joy and biggest heartaches. I guess what keeps me going is it is how they finish the race. Sometimes the course is flat, easy, up & down, very hard and bumpy. Some tackle the course with ease others seem to struggle behind help but in the end you pray, teach, love and hope that they finish the race. IMO – the race is a relationship with the Saviour. All else will follow that bond.
I had a man once at work threaten me and I told him you can’t scare me, I’m a father of a teenager. He looked at me and walked away. Other around me laughed and said that was the truth, nothing scarer than an teenager.
jenny
January 29th, 2010 @ 1:00 pm

I’m just going to come out with it right up front: I have the tendency to be a control freak with my kids. Early on in my motherhood, I had the unfortunate insecurity that my children were a literal extension of me; like an arm or a leg. I really had to work on letting that go. (Confession: still working.) Yes, some people will judge me and my mothering techniques based on my children’s behavior. And yes, sometimes it will hurt. I have to focus (and let the hurt run off my back): I don’t really care about what “they” think, I care about my children.

However, because I am AWARE of my inner-control-freak, I am constantly working on this fault of mine — trying to keep it in check. It’s funny you mention the other teacher chiming in with “the other plan” comment. When my oldest son was in 5th or 6th grade, he was making some bad choices concerning school work. (i.e. not handing things in.) I was very frustrated. The work was done. I wanted to march right in to that school and hand them in myself. But instead we sat close together at the bottom of our stairs and had a heart to heart. I told him that I wanted to do that for him. But I also told him it was kind of like him taking a test and having me tell him all the answers. How does anyone know what he has learned? I told him that if I did those kind of things for him, I was really choosing Satan’s plan instead of Christ’s and Heavenly Father’s plan. Puting it in that kind of perspective shocked him a little. I’m not going to say that life has been completely rosy from that point on, but I know that conversation made an impact. In my experience (I have 2 teens, 2 tweens and a younger child) when I can emotionally under-react to a situation and be calm, and when I can rationally and clearly deliniate the choices in a situation, 95% of the time, my children will choose the choice that I WANT them to choose. When I am able to give them ownership of the choice and consequence, they almost always step up to the plate and make the better choice. Sometimes its scary and takes everything I have to trust them, but in the end, that’s what Heavenly Father has done with us, right? I have to admit, sometimes I lack the faith to do this, OR sometimes I have been strongly prompted to just completely intervene and “force” something, but this parenting thing is a learning process for me {and unfortunately for them by default!}. I have to keep in mind that my main goal is to teach them, and prepare them to be the best ADULT they can be. I have to be able to see past the moment — and view the bigger picture.

Great post! Thanks.
I am loving all the comments as well-
anon occasionally
January 29th, 2010 @ 1:12 pm

I honestly haven’t a clue. My 13 year old is tearing our family apart, and I just don’t know what to do anymore. Things were so bad today the neighbours came around because of the screaming.
anon this time
January 29th, 2010 @ 1:22 pm

My dad grew up as the oldest son of a long-term bishop who was rather strict. After serving a mission and as a branch president in his 20′s he left the church in his 30′s and hasn’t been back since (he’s in his late 50′s now).

Watching this unfold in my family has really helped me understand the eternal nature of parenting. You really can’t control your kids forever… even if you get them through the teen years and a mission, at some point they will choose their own behavior.

My parents were pretty loose with rules for me as a teenager (for obvious reasons) which forced me to evaluate my beliefs very young. I chose the Church, as did all of my siblings. But life’s not over yet!

Anyway… I guess this is just a long way of saying that I think it’s important to allow children to learn the lessons of agency, consequences and responsibility at a very young age (pre-teen, even). And not parent-imposed consequences (like grounding) but real life, natural consequences that result from poor choices. And of course, conversely, the positive natural consequences that come from positive choices are just as instructive. And that parenting is really only part of the story of a life: we are here to learn to choose for ourselves.
jenny
January 29th, 2010 @ 1:25 pm

anon occasionally, sometimes my 13 year old screams so long and loud it takes all we have not to scream back.
Sometimes we are better at it than others.

I just wanted to respond after my previous comment (#16), to let you know — we have the really hard days too.

Hang in there and don’t give up.
Dalene
January 29th, 2010 @ 1:30 pm

I want to make it clear I am not judging others’ parenting methods and I’m certainly not saying we should step back and let children be completely unsupervised, fail school, do drugs or anything else (I don’t think anyone took it that way, but just in case). I’m just tossing out experiences I’ve had that I’m still sorting out as I go.

Until kids are mature or wise enough to self-motivate (and that seems to be different for every child) I think we do need to have certain expectations–such chores, completing homework, etc.–that have reasonable pre-determined consequences.

I agree with Johnna–sometimes we have to do something. I think regardless of what that something is, there is a lot to be said for following through (instead of making empty threats) and, as jenny illustrated, being open and honest with our love and concerns, and even, when it’s appropriate, about our own tendencies or shortcomings.

anon–I’m so sorry. Thirteen can be SO hard. And it does affect the whole family. We’ve had screaming at yelling at our house too. And even some running away. Sometimes I felt like all I could do was pray and put names in the temple and hope I could make it until my 13yo was 30. Hang in there!
Angela
January 29th, 2010 @ 2:54 pm

I’m just starting out parenting teenagers—my oldest is 13. But as I think back on my own life as a teen, I know that one of the greatest gifts my parents gave me was the sense that I was in charge of my own life. They helped, they supervised, they disciplined when necessary, but I’ve never felt like I was anybody’s puppet, or that I was living out someone else’s expectations. I don’t think my parents ever once said “because I said so” when I asked “why?” Of course, I was also a pretty responsible oldest child who was inclined to please (what’s UP with the birth order thing?) and if I’d been more inclined to rebel they would have needed to lay down the law more often. But I wasn’t a perfect kid, either. I made mistakes that were directly related to the fact that I’d been given a certain amount of freedom. But you know what? I learned from those mistakes. And I claim them as my own; they’re not my parents’ fault. But as I’ve said before on this blog, there’s a reason that the verb “exercise” is coupled with the noun “agency”: all of us, from the time we’re young, need to practice making choices and then dealing with the subsequent consequences.

It’s certainly tough to figure out the boundaries for individual children, though. All my philosophizing is one thing, but the practical applications will be another once I’m living in a house full of teeangers.
FoxyJ
January 29th, 2010 @ 3:05 pm

Jenny–

I liked your comment a lot; after reading this post and the comments I realized that what I want to be is a parent who parents from faith, not fear. One who acts and doesn’t react. A lot of the ways I parent tend to be based on either immediate fears (‘someone will get hurt’, ‘they’re going to make a mess’, ‘I’m going to look bad’) or future fears (‘they’re going to grow up and hate me’). Obviously as Angela pointed out, philosophizing is one thing and actually putting into practice is another, but I think being aware of our attitudes and goals is a good first step. I hope.
anon
January 29th, 2010 @ 3:14 pm

I totally get the dilemma here. I grew up in a home in which I obeyed out of fear and was mostly a good child. But my parents most often thought the worst of me and often accused me of thing I never did nor would have done. Someone close to me grew up in a home where many of the kids got into serious trouble while parents seemed to have their heads in the sand. I’m trying to strike a balance of being aware, yet not jumping to conclusions. It’s hard.
Janet
January 29th, 2010 @ 3:34 pm

Lee, I served with my husband as mission president and I have to tell you that 19 to 21-year-old missionaries are definitely NOT under constant supervision. Many are hours away from the mission president and must motivate themselves to work daily and take care of their own problems.

Dalene, thank your for your comment about my comment – I was hesitant to comment, but felt I should and your appreciation made it worth it.
Sharlee
January 29th, 2010 @ 5:23 pm

Dalene, I love this post. Wow, I don’t have all the answers (and, boy, are we in trouble if we ever think we do!), but here are a few things I’ve learned about parenting in the almost 24 years I’ve been at it:

* It’s hard. Parenting is hard work. It just is. No way around (or over or under) it. We’ll make things a lot easier on ourselves if we just accept this. Oh, it can be fun too–a regular barrel of laughs sometimes! Hopefully there’s a lot of joy and rejoicing in our posterity as we raise our kids. But, make no mistake; it’s hard.

* The most important thing that our children must know (really know, deep down in their guts) is that we love them and that we are on their side. Always. No matter what. And we need to help them understand that being on their side means that sometimes we will say no, that sometimes we will expect hard things of them, that we will always, always be interested in them (where they are, what they’re doing, how they’re feeling), not because we don’t trust them, but because we CARE.

* At a certain point, the only control we have over our children is our love for them and their love for us. But that can be a powerful thing! When our oldest son turned 18 (early in his senior year of high school), he began to talk about moving out into an apartment with some of his friends. That would have been a disastrous thing for him. But we knew we couldn’t “forbid” him from doing it. “I’ll be 18, Mom,” he said at one point. “You can’t stop me.” “I know I can’t, son,” I said. “But it would break my heart.” That did it. I had him. There was no way he wanted to break my heart! He *loved* me!

* Boundaries are important.

* Children will be more likely to respect you if you respect them.

* There is no such thing as “one size fits all” when it comes to raising children. (Dang!)

* Good parenting (especially of teens) requires creativity, godly patience, inspiration, perseverance, steadiness, a very healthy sense of humor, and sometimes a good support group!

That’s sorta what we’ve got going on here, huh? It *does* help. Thanks, again, Dalene–and all of you who have commented.
she-bop
January 29th, 2010 @ 6:19 pm

“I used to think math was hard, but parenting is way harder.” AMEN!

Right now I am just wishing January were over. This has been a hard month for me in the parenting department. I sure wish these kids came with some kind of manual particular to each of them. All of my kids are SO different. What works for one, hardly ever works for another.

My oldest is close to graduating from college, lives at home, and doesn’t know what to do. She had her future hopes pinned on a boy returning home from a mission, sweeping her off her feet, and starting a life with him. So far things are going according to her plan and it is so hard to see her struggle. She is a good girl, but feels a little lost. And everything I say doesn’t help (so she says). I’ve learned to be quiet. And listen. A lot. That is hard for me. I want to fix and plan everything.

Another college student, who lives at home, is in the throes of falling in love. Yikes. And if you think that doesn’t concern me, you’re wrong. How do we counsel? She’s waiting for lightening bolts, and often answers don’t come that way. How do I check out this boy and make sure he’s the one and only for my baby? I do like him, but holy cow! I’m not ready for this. And her happiness in love is really affecting my oldest who sees how things could be. This child really just wants to be a mom, which is great, but it’s been quite a job to get her to realize the end all be all of her happiness is up to her. Not someone else.

And last, but not least, the teenager – yikes! Spoiled, cute, funny, sweet, mischevious, loud, smart – the list could go on and on. This child doesn’t understand why she can’t stay up late like her sisters and why she can’t do the same things. I do have to admit sometimes it feels like we live in a college dorm, but I am really struggling to keep some order here, for her sake. This past week has been especially tough. I really want to always trust my children, but if they do something that hurts that trust, I think some action needs to be taken. I think that every home can have rules for the household. And if they are broken, there needs to be consequences, that pertain to the rule broken. I really try to not be hard on my kids. In the same minute this child can yell at me, and then cuddle up to me and want a back rub. What? Some help here? Please.

It is so hard to remind myself that Heavenly Father is my example, and he loves me no matter what. These are His children that we have been given to teach while we are on Earth. We, as parents, have a responsibility to teach them, and not screw them up too bad. I can only hope they will be better at parenting than I am. Sometimes all I want to do is crawl in a hole and wait it out. Other days I want to put them in a hole and make them wait it out.

Thanks for this Dalene. I’ll be thinking more about this…
she-bop
January 29th, 2010 @ 6:20 pm

I just reread this and meant that things AREN’T going as planned, for my oldest.
the mrs
January 29th, 2010 @ 10:56 pm

Thank you so much for this discussion.

I was just thinking earlier today about how much support is out there for parenting young ones & how there is just not so much out for parenting teens.
Early in our day we had to deal with the difficult with our 17 yr old. (She’s a great kid. We are blessed-she just really pushes at home.) We’ve been trying so hard to show respect while still helping her see what impact her behavior is having on her own life. Today I think we did well, because voices weren’t raised and respect was shown by all. It hasn’t always been that way.

We were able to end the day on a happy and loving note and how grateful I am for that.

It is so interesting to see how different all my children are. The best parenting tools I’ve used areprayer and inspiration. I just wish I was better at using them.
hennchix
January 30th, 2010 @ 1:03 am

We have kids ranging from 15 to 20- 4 of them. The oldest is a senior at byui- a joy to raise, very responsible, could run the house better than I can….until her car accident and resulting head injury. Now she has to be coached to keep up on even the most menial tasks. Never broke our trust, never needed a curfew. #2- moved out at 18, dropped out of school, left the church. # 3- bipolar, oppositional defiant disorder- resists any instruction to do something, but will do most things if it is his idea. Working on his eagle project, volunteer fireman. And the baby? Also bipolar and ODD- but sweet and cuddly. Needs lots of structure and boundaries.

They are all very different, and mental illness has complicated our parenting. We have found that it is vital for us to remain in complete control of our own emotions when dealing with issues. We are not always successful, but we do try hard. If we can “disconnect” from the emotion of the moment, and use logical consequences/ responses, the kids are much more receptive. Even tho they may be angry for a while, they appreciate the boundaries they do have. I would also highly recommend the “Parenting with Love and Logic” series- I think the author’s last name is Fay, or something like that. And a hearty shout out in agreement to the “parenting is just a really hard job” crowd. Hang in there- the end is worth the effort.
Dovie
January 30th, 2010 @ 12:04 pm

#17 anon occasionally,

I don’t know your situation at all but I know what parenting a young teen daughter is like. Thirteen to fifteen were the hardest years with our daughter (she is our oldest). It really took a toll on everyone in or family. During this time I became pregnant with my sixth child and my third child who was eight at the time said to us shortly after finding out with much sincerity and desperation “I know your having a new baby and all but I just don’t know if I can handle another teenager.” Not quite understanding she would be grown before this little baby would become a teenager.

It was hard on everyone. Finally we decided to find a professional counselor. I ask around the neighborhood and got a good recommendation. All three of us went and the therapist would break the session up, sometimes all together but more often a few minutes with mom and dad and then daughter alone then all together. It was really hard but really helpful.

The second thing that helped was just getting out of the initial throws of puberty (those first few years for girls can be so hard emotionally).

The third thing was a band program at her school particularly percussion. There she was able to interact and meet the expectations of other authority figures that were not her parents. It was something of her own choosing, nothing that we forced her into and she was able to learn some things that we were not able to teach. As well as excel at something she loved and had a special talent for. She was also able to interact with peers and form some really positive friendships. Drum line is mostly a boy thing, and she enjoys being the only girl on the line. Well when the antics of the boys don’t make her so mad she could spit, most of the time it is a very good experience. Even dealing with the teen boys I think can be very constructive, being so mad but not spitting for instance, learning to stand up and speak up diplomatically when you disagree with what is going on.

All of that and breaking out the parenting books again. New ones this time, no more Dr. Spock now it’s ‘Love an Logic for Teens’ ‘The Challenging Child’ ‘Ten Days to a less Defiant Child’ The funniest thing though is that she is a voracious reader and most often she would finish the parenting book before we would, but I think that that helped her helped her see our difficulties from 360 degrees.

I can be a feisty pot stirrer, kind of like my daughter and I remember what a difficult teen I was. I think that I turned out o.k. and I love my mom immensely, I don’t know if a person would have predicted that based on any snippet from my life from about eleven to seventeen.

I wish you the best with your daughter know that you are not alone.
anon occasionally
January 31st, 2010 @ 12:55 pm

Thank you to everyone for their thoughts, ideas, help and support. Plenty to think about and a few good books to get my hands on.
Susan M
January 31st, 2010 @ 6:51 pm

My kids are 19, 18 and 15. When they were babies I decided that I wanted to have as few rules as possible—I did not want to always be telling my kids “No.” That means I structured our lives a certain way. I didn’t keep a lot of breakables around, etc. If they were doing something wrong, I didn’t say “don’t do that,” I’d say, “do it this way.” (IE, “Be gentle with the kitty.”) If that wasn’t possible, I tried the best parenting tip I can give anyone: redirection, redirection, redirection.

Somehow our kids have managed to grow into remarkable people. I don’t know if it really had much to do with my parenting—it’s probably much more a temperament thing. And if anyone has kids and doesn’t understand temperament traits, go get a book or at least google it.

I think a lot of issues in families have to do with clashes in temperaments.

Oh and if your kids are anything like mine, the first thing to ask when they’re grouchy is “When’s the last time you ate? Did you sleep OK last night?”
dalene
January 31st, 2010 @ 7:54 pm

Susan–those are the first things I ask myself when I’m grouchy as well. Good point.
jks
January 31st, 2010 @ 10:22 pm

I have a 12 year old now. She is turning into such a teenager. Suddenly she feels restricted by all these rules. However, I can’t put her in charge of her life. She doesn’t have the maturity to understand things. She is already complaining about not dating until 16. Thinks we are cruel for not giving her a cellphone. Wants to wear makeup at the beginning of 6th grade. Wants to listen to explicit music or surf the internet unsupervised.
I have never been a micromanaging type of mom, but it is suddenly difficult. I am used to my kids being cooperative. I don’t want them watching TV and playing video games all day. I want them to be active. I want them to develop some talents. I want them to bathe everyday.
So, I have to tell her to do things. Sometimes it is a rule. Sometimes a suggestion. Sometimes I explain. Sometimes I can explain and explain and she doesn’t get it. Sometimes I have to say “just do it.”
Teenagers’ brains are messed up. They are actually worse at understanding choices and consequences than 11 year olds. My friend has a 16 year old who is using “mushrooms.” You can bet that this girl knew at age 11 that doing drugs is stupid and wrong. However, now at 16 she thinks that doing drugs is no big deal. Two months ago this kid was caught shoplifting. You can bet that at age 11 she would have said she would never steal something and that it was wrong and you might have to go to jail. But at 16? For some reason she thought it was no big deal, worth doing for fun or something? Just because she was with a friend and the friend had done it before?
When you see your kids doing things, you sometimes have to step in and make a stand now….the first time you find about about drugs…..not wait 6 months till the problem is bigger. Because if they truly understood how things work, they wouldn’t have started. However, you should never save them from the consequences that they have already earned and give them a free pass.
I get to have a lot of long conversations with my daughter. I hope it is helping her keep things in perspective and deal with all the emotions that are going on with her. A lot of emotional things. Very different than 6 months ago. So I try to be understanding and available, but I can’t stop giving her boundaries. She needs them because she is naive. I try to explain but she needs more time to gain some wisdom a little at a time.
Parenting for Dummies « Course Correction
February 1st, 2010 @ 1:22 am

[...] My brothers and I were lazy, useless kids. I did no homework until 9th grade when teachers began posting our grades and my pride kicked in. Oddly enough, my brothers and I, like our more disciplined cousins, grew up to be hard-working, responsible adults—although I do wish I’d learned to play the piano. We and our cousins turned out like our parents. Apparently their examples were more important than their parenting styles. [...]
mormonhermitmom
February 1st, 2010 @ 1:18 pm

I just don’t want my kids to end up living at MY home when they are 30.