Young Love

Posted by Angela | July 16, 2009 | 36 Comments

Tomorrow my husband and I celebrate our 17th wedding anniversary, a milestone that makes me feel both proud (still goin’ strong!) and old. We celebrated an anniversary last year that made me feel even older, though: in November of 2008, we’d been “together” for 20 years, which freaked me out a little because, in my head, I’m still about 24. And 20 years of togetherness is a good bit longer than most of my contemporaries (I just turned 37), even my Mormon contemporaries who generally marry young, because most of my contemporaries did a better job than I did following the prophet. They didn’t fall in love in high school.

Although, I must admit, during the late 80s in my particular neighborhood/high school (the west side suburbs of Salt Lake, Cyprus High), the injunction to avoid “steady dating” in high school was regularly ignored, by active Mormon kids and parents alike. I realize this wasn’t the case with all Mormon communities during the 80s, but I can say with complete honesty that I didn’t feel the slightest twinge of guilt over my steady dating habits . . . just as long as I did the best I could to remain morally clean. Almost everybody I knew steady-dated—we started “going with” members of the opposite sex in late Jr. High and some of us graduated to relationships of near-engagement-like intensity by the time we were seniors in high school.

I met my husband during my junior year. Although I’d had a few other “steady” relationships before him, he was my first real love. And we did love each other. It was an immature love, yes, but it was real. He was a year older than me, so he was close enough to missionary age that his going on a mission was an ever-present expectation from the beginning of our relationship, and he left (worthily) to serve in Minnesota a few months before I graduated from high school. When I went to BYU that fall, I didn’t want to be one of those girls who sat in her apartment and pined away the weekends for two years. I intended to “date” . . . but it was a half-hearted kind of dating. All the guys in my social circle knew I had pictures of my missionary covering my bedroom wall. I definitely had some fun, but I never gave my heart to anybody else.

Three months after he came home from his mission, my husband and I were married.

The reason I tell this story now is that I have a son who’s quickly approaching dating age. It seems to me that youth these days are encouraged much more strongly than I ever was to avoid steady dating, and it’s my hope that all my kids will spend their teenage years casually dating a selection of different people, as chastely as possible, just as they’ve been advised to do.

But . . . what if they fall in love?

I ask this because as I look back on my own experience, I can’t imagine how my parents could have handled my relationship with my then-boyfriend/now-husband any better. They gave us rules and curfews. They expressed to both of us that they trusted us. It helped that my mom really liked my husband—it would have been a very different story if this was a guy my parents didn’t like—but they never forbade me from seeing him. If they had tried to break us up, there’s a good chance that it would have broken my relationship with my parents instead, and I simply would have tried to escape out the basement window to see him under cover of darkness.

One final thought: Although I would NOT advise steady dating to any teenager with a goal of temple worthiness—the temptations were very real—in my experience, I often felt more at risk with some of the guys I dated casually. They didn’t care about me, really—I was just a girl to kiss or, in some cases, a girl with whom they could try to do more than kiss. My husband, on the other hand, did care, and we were both committed to the same goal of remaining temple worthy. Again, this isn’t to say that I’d recommend steady dating. This isn’t to say that maintaining our standards wasn’t reaaaaaaaaaly hard. It’s just to point out that casual dating, too, can be dangerous, simply for different reasons.

I can say, though, that after 20 years of togetherness and 17 years of marriage, I can’t imagine being married to anyone else. I met the man who is better for me than any other man I’ve ever known when I was only 16 years old, and fell in love with him, and I’ve stuck by him ever since. I can’t imagine–I don’t want to imagine—what my life would look like now if I’d left him behind.

Did any of you steady date during your high school days? What were your experiences? And those of you with teenagers: how do you deal with this issue in your own family? Advice is appreciated.

Comments

36 Responses to “Young Love”

Jinxie
July 16th, 2009 @ 9:33 am

I had a few “boyfriends” in high school, but it wasn’t until the year after that I had my first serious relationship. We had known each other throughout high school and were in the same ward, but it took us those four years to realize we wanted to be together. Still, like you, we knew that his mission was fast approaching (we had a year together) and we would do nothing to jeopardize our relationship. We adhered to rules and curfews imposed by his parents (he lived at home), BYU (I lived in the dorms), by the Church, and by ourselves (we had a few specifics we came up with all on our own). It was an amazing year.

Fortunately, my parents and his mother adored us and trusted us to do our thing. Unfortunately, his dad didn’t feel the same way. We were GOOD kids with stalwart histories and bright futures, and he’d always liked me before then. But as soon as we started dating, he was somehow convinced (despite all evidence to the contrary) that I was going to convince his son to stay home, or make him unworthy to serve. While his requests and rules were rarely unreasonable, they were the ones we struggled with the most. Even his wife, my boyfriend’s mom, was on our side and would say so, but would have to respect her husband’s wishes.

Of course, my boyfriend served an honorable mission. The first time his dad saw me after his son left, he was much more cheerful and happy to see me than he had been in the previous 15 months. When my guy returned, we reconciled, but only briefly, as it was not to be.

My point here is to trust your kids, just as your parents trusted you. I think you already have excellent perspective on this (moreso than me, since I’m still unmarried and only dream of having kids). If you raised with love and the gospel, and they already make smart decisions about other things, chances are that they’ll get this one right too.
Shelah
July 16th, 2009 @ 10:05 am

My story isn’t all that different from yours. I was a serial monogamist in high school. I was “going out” with an LDS boy when I joined the Church when I was 14, but we broke up shortly after I was baptized. Then I dated another boy in my stake (off and on) from just before my 15th birthday until I was 17 and he graduated from high school. We did everything wrong: exclusive dating, almost always solo dates, I slept over at his house pretty frequently (with his sister who was my age and also a good friend and he lived almost an hour away), we spent lots and lots of time kissing in his bedroom with the door closed, etc… We had LOTS of time and opportunity to do the wrong thing, and by some miracle, we never did.

Our parents (both sets) seemed pretty favorably inclined towards the relationship. I think his parents were glad he was dating an LDS girl (slim pickins out on the East Coast) and my parents were such new converts that they were blissfully unaware of “For the Strength of Youth” pamphlet.

When we broke up for the last time, I had a wild summer o’ love, where I swore off steady relationships, focused on “just dating” and kissed different four boys (which was wild and crazy for me). But that wasn’t as much fun as I thought it would be either, so I swore off guys for my senior year of high school, not wanting to fritter away my time with guys who I knew weren’t long-term relationship material.

Then I got to BYU, determined to date 30 guys in 30 days, just to see if I could. On day 2, I met my DH. Sixteen years later, we’re still together. And we did all the “wrong” things I did with my high school boyfriend, and once again, I managed to fend him off and we stayed out of trouble (LOL) until we were married.

My kids haven’t reached the dating age yet, so I really don’t know what I’ll do as a parent. I’m not sure that the path I took was the smartest one, but it worked out really well for me. I guess some kind of eyes-wide-open trust is probably the avenue I’ll take as a parent.
Catherine
July 16th, 2009 @ 11:06 am

My husband and I started dating as seniors in high school, but we’d known each other since the first grade. He got baptized our first year of college, and we married in the temple four years later, after attending different colleges. It wasn’t easy, in many ways, but completely worth it. I couldn’t imagine life with anyone else. With my experiences in mind, I can’t fathom the people who marry someone after knowing them only a few short months. For me personally, I love that we know almost everything about each other, remember how goofy and awkward we were in elementary and middle school, yet still love each other and are able to continue to grow together. We’ve been married a year and a half, but have been “together” for six+ years. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Sharlee
July 16th, 2009 @ 11:14 am

“Eyes-wide-open trust.” I love that, Shelah. I guess that’s what we’re practicing with our teenagers. All three of my teenage boys fell in love early (third son turned sixteen just today–and he’s had his first date planned for months. Well, his second date, actually. His first date is tonight with me. Tomorrow night, though, he’ll be doubling with his older brother (and date) and the girl of his dreams). One thing we do is talk a lot about about keeping things light and fun (and non-physical) at this age. I tell my boys that if they really like a girl, the last thing in the world they should do is go steady with her because that just complicates everything. (I realize that “go steady with” is an outdated phrase, but the current “go out with” just doesn’t make sense to me! ) Anyway, all three boys have pretty much ignored my advice. Oh, they keep the letter of it in that they don’t ever date the same girl twice in a row, they don’t go on single dates, etc., but in their hearts I know they are completely committed to their current one-and-only. And I guess that’s okay with me. I think (hope! pray!) those letter-of-the-law guidelines will help keep them safe.

We also talk a lot about the whys of the guidelines, which sometimes can make all the difference to a kid.

Two approaches that I think almost always backfire are: 1) not talking about sex at all with teenagers– pretending those urges don’t exist, and 2) focusing too much on sex, especially in a negative, paranoid sort of way.

Balance, trust, open and loving communication. Aren’t these almost always the keys?
Sharlee
July 16th, 2009 @ 11:15 am

P.S. Love the picture, Angela!
Angela
July 16th, 2009 @ 11:19 am

Thanks so much for the stories and advice so far. Being open and trusting with your kids is so important, I agree. And Sharlee, you’re my parenting idol.

I would also love to hear from somebody who’s child is infatuated with, or even in love with, somebody that they as parents don’t approve of or like. How to deal with THAT?!?!
anon
July 16th, 2009 @ 11:57 am

Well, Angela, I can’t exactly answer your question because my son is only 5. But I can tell you what not to do – everything that my parents did when I was in High School. For example: Don’t villanize the girl/boy friend. Don’t accuse them of making mistakes, going beyond the boundaries, etc. Because you may be accusing them of doing things they aren’t. It gave me an excuse to behave in a lesser manner “Well we’re getting punished for doing such and such anyway so we may as well do it.” Do trust, do respect, do accept and do show Christlike love for the girl/boy friend. You may be the only positive role model they have in their life. You will show your child that God loves all his children regardless of their faults and you will show your child that you trust their judgment as well, even though you may stay up at night worrying about the situation. It is my experience,(again not with my own children yet) that most of us tend to live up to expectations. If the expectations are low, we live up to them. If the expectations are high, and are kindly given, we live up to them.
mmiles
July 16th, 2009 @ 11:57 am

I had a good friend in High School whose parents had a no two dates in a row rule. So if he went out with one girl, he had to go out with a different girl before he took her out again. It kept him from getting too serious in high school. I like that rule.
However, my husband who had a girlfriend thinks it’s just fine to pair off that early.
m&m
July 16th, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

Here’s my thought — I think we need to focus on more than just the dating part. The teachings about how and why to stay morally clean are SO clear. They teach not to do ANYTHING that arouses sexual drives. That’s pretty tough stuff to teach and to hold to. But I think it’s essential to talk frankly with our children about how their bodies work, why Heavenly Father made them to work that way, and how and why to keep those intense emotions bridled. Armed with the understanding, maybe they can see beyond just the ‘rules’ of when and why and how to date, but also can be guarded against many other deceptions (people who claim that porn is ok, or that masturbation is normal and appropriate, etc.) and people’s selfish motives (including casual daters who are looking for NCMO and nothing else). And we can help them learn to bridle their passions that if they do find real love, they keep it in check until the right time.

I had parents who encouraged me to kiss and enjoy it (from the time of my first pretty relationship when I was 16) because they were worried I might freak out when I got married. (I was a pretty straight-laced kid.) While I understand the sentiment, they did me a great disservice. Thank goodness I WAS a good kid! I never did anything to not be temple worthy in a technical sense, but whoa-doggy, when I got married, I realized how often I really had pushed the line, simply by too much kissing. (And baby, did I like kissing!) Let’s be honest; it doesn’t take much to get your body going. And the prophets teach now very clearly to not get to that point at all. Hard doctrine, yes, but to me, it’s only in really understanding their bodies and why “the rules” exist that I think kids can really be armed to stay safe. There’s so much more in today’s world that can allure kids into behavior that is inappropriate. (It’s no wonder that the leaders are speaking of a ‘return to virtue’)

I think if all we do is focus on the dating part w/o really helping them understand more about the law of chastity, we will leave them with rules that may seem unreasonable (esp if they do find someone they fall in love with) w/o the underlying clarity about the whys to help them understand more of these standards.

For all that I liked kissing (whoa, doggy), I wish I had had more clarity about how I could stay far away from the line. By the time I met my husband, I had come to realize myself that I wasn’t happy when I pushed that line (even as, again, I didn’t fully realize how much I had). It was just all too normal and accepted to “make out.” After all, the idea is that “we’re not doing anything wrong — we’re just kissing.” But it isn’t true, according to what the prophets teach.

Pres. Packer’s “True doctrine, understood, changes behavior quicker than talking about behavior changes behavior” really sums up my feelings.
cheryl
July 16th, 2009 @ 12:41 pm

I was the girl who never casual dated. Well, sometimes I did, but it was always feast or famine for me! I tended to either have a steady boyfriend or nothing. Most of the time, it wasn’t my desire, either. However, it was good for me. Why? Here’s what I learned from it all:
1. You can steady date without kissing. I seriously only kissed two men on the mouth –I married the second one!
2. Men are not all bad; nor are they all good. Each is an individual with their own problems and their own talents. It’s not good to compare.
3. Relationships in general! Where is the give and take? What about service? Priorities (family versus boyfriend)? Kindness (break-ups don’t have to be devestating or hate-filled)?
4. Enjoying time with one person over another is normal, but in high school it is sometimes short-lived. When I learned to prioritize time between family, girlfriends, and the boyfriend, I was much happier. Besides, most of the boyfriends only lasted 4 months (and then came the famine!).
5. It’s different for everyone. One person can steady date and not have any problems. Another will end up havign sex. Sometimes it’s because of personality, other times it’s because of the situation or lack of education. We can’t force every 16 year old into a cookie-cutter-box-o’-protection –but we CAN teach them the right things. Me, myself, and I had been taught very carefully two things: The commandments and how to listen to the Holy Ghost. Luckily (and blessedly and all that), I had the deepest desire to do the correct thing. Did that stop me from falling head over heels in love with a couple of guys? No, but it did keep me from doing things that would stop me from doing what I knew to be right. I hope that makes sense…
Colleen
July 16th, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

This is a topic I’ve thought about quite a bit and haven’t come to any solid conclusions yet. My parents were hard-liners. I had my first boyfriend my senior year of high school and after about a month, my dad freaked out and made me break up with him. I was a good kid with no inclination (and frankly, no opportunity!) to take things too far, but I was treated like a little hussy. I absolutely believe parents need to treat their kids with respect and trust. As for the rest? My son isn’t quite four years old, so luckily I have some time to think about it…
m&m
July 16th, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

I think there is another reason not to steady date…I don’t think it’s just about the sex. I look back and realize that I spent a lot of emotional energy and drama w/ the guy I was most serious about. I think finding true love in high school really is the exception, and there can be a lot missed of the FUN of that stage when too much energy is focused on ‘relationships.’
Jennie
July 16th, 2009 @ 3:28 pm

I went to an all-girl’s school and it pretty much nipped my dating career in the bud. I would highly recommend this strategy to anyone. It’s worth the price of tuition. Seriously.
Cindy
July 16th, 2009 @ 3:31 pm

Because we live in the south and we homeschool and were looking for social opportunities for our oldest daughter, we joined a group of mothers and daughters who met once a month and were focused on topics having to do with courtship. I had never heard of courtship before, so it was all new to me. As I listened and learned and read some of the book out there (most by what we might term “fundamentalist or evangelical Christians”) I was intrigued. I thought that some of what they had to say about teens & serious relationships was very valid. With our daughter we chose to focus on the fact that high school was a unique time for her. Never again would she have so much time to devote to her interests, to develop her talents, etc. We wanted her to have fun with friends rather than to spend hours moping over a boy. We wanted her to have fun interactions with boys instead of constant drama. We were fortunate that these things were things that she wanted too. She did some really terrific things while she was in high school, then went on to college, dated a bit, and was married last summer. With our 2nd child we’ve tried to emphasize the same things.

One of the things we talk about a lot is the cultural expectation that if you have feelings towards someone you must act on them and make them more intense. We’ve talked with our kids about how chemistry is a reality of life–sometimes you just have chemistry with another person. But if you’re married and you meet someone that you feel a spark towards (hopefully you don’t all think I’m a heretic for suggesting that a married person could feel chemistry towards another person…) you wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) act on those feelings because it would be inappropriate. In the same way we’ve told our kids that just because you feel a little bit of chemistry with the new guy or gal at the stake dance doesn’t mean that that feeling needs to be fanned into a bonfire.

I can see already that our 3rd child, the one who challenges us in every other way, will be less compliant in this area. When he was in 7th grade a girl from school called him every day. He started asking if he could go to her house, go to the mall with her, etc. We just calmly told him that in our family we follow the prophet and 13 year olds don’t do that. When he started talking about having a girlfriend we told him that we follow the prophet and don’t do that either. When he asked why he wasn’t supposed to date before 16 and have a girlfriend I was very open and frank with him. I’m not sure that made a difference–he was still hostile and upset that we wouldn’t let him do whatever it was he was wanting to do that day. We never told him that he couldn’t talk to her on the phone, but we did impose gentle limits of about 15 minutes. Eventually that interest seemed to fade; my husband thought it was because the girl found a guy who’s parents would let him hang out like she wanted. And our son is back to ignoring the girls.

One of my friends has always taught her teens that having serious relationships isn’t ok. Her son is 18 and has always been set on going on a mission, gone out with splits with missionaries, etc. In the last few months he has become serious with a girl who’s parents encourage their daughters to have boyfriends, who talk about “when they get married,” and who tell my friend that she shouldn’t pressure her son to go on a mission. I know she is so worried that this relationship will prevent her son from having the desire to serve a mission. Obviously the best intentions of a parent go only so far.

Sorry that my first ever comment turned into such a soapbox. This topic is something that my husband and I feel strongly about and have thought a lot about. As we have watched our older children go through these stages and watched our friend’s/family’s children who have had more traditional “going steady” relationships, we feel that there have been many benefits to following the counsel of the prophet and avoiding serious relationships while in high school.
Giggles
July 16th, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

My story couldn’t be more different. I went on a total of 3 dates in high school. I dated one guy for about two months my freshman year of college. After that it was just the occasional first date until I was 25. Then I started steadily dating a guy for about a year or so. There are few ways that relationship could’ve been worse. Then I met and became friends with a guy over the course of two years. We casually dated for a year or so. Started seriously dating in January. Got engaged last month. And will be married in November.

And honestly, I’m so extremely grateful that I had that time on my own to get to know me, to discover who I am, and create the person I want to be.
Michelle L.
July 16th, 2009 @ 8:35 pm

Thanks for this post Angela– you know I needed it!

My 17 yo son is madly in love with THE PERFECT GIRL. Truly. They follow the church advice by dating other people but it’s a half-hearted effort.

Isn’t it interesting that we are truly hard-wired for monogamy? I feel badly for my son; he’s found the right girl at the wrong time. There’s no great solution for him right now.
Johnna
July 16th, 2009 @ 9:22 pm

I did have a boyfriend in high school during 11th grade. Not mormon, really great guy. I would say with hindsight I was clearly in love, and that I was a witch when we were breaking up.

I don’t really understand the don’t-date-anyone-twice-in-a-row. Just seems unnatural to me. How weird is it to go on a date with some guy who’s not the one you love? How weird is it to go on a date with someone who loves someone else? I just don’t get that.
Melissa M.
July 16th, 2009 @ 9:41 pm

First of all, Angela, I love the picture—it captures young love perfectly.

I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot lately, because my 19-year-old daughter went away on Study Abroad and came home with her very first boyfriend (breaking all Study Abroad rules, mind you), and he’s 26. Panic has ensued. I am starting to think that I would rather she’d had a couple of boyfriends in high school or her freshman year at BYU so that she could experience having a boyfriend without worrying about the possibility of marriage. But when you’re dating a 26-year-old RM, marriage becomes a very real possibility, and I worry about her inexperience, about her marrying the very first boy she likes (although it worked out for you:)). I told her I wish she’d had a boyfriend her freshman year (like I can orchestrate that—I know, I know) and she said, “But Mom, the church leaders tell boys not to have girlfriends before their missions, so I wasn’t supposed to have a freshman boyfriend.”

I just wish she’d had a little more experience with boys before now. I did have several boyfriends in high school—one that I was very much in love with and sent on a mission, but it didn’t work out when he got home. By the time I met my husband, I’d had several boyfriends and felt experienced enough to make a good decision at that point.

Bottom line: I’m not sure what I would recommend at this point. I’m still trying to figure it out myself. All I know is, parenting is a lot easier when your children are 10!
Faith.Not.Fear
July 16th, 2009 @ 10:03 pm

Amen, Melissa M!
Zina
July 16th, 2009 @ 10:22 pm

My husband would have married his high school girlfriend if she hadn’t gotten married while he was on his mission. And he waited for and would have married a later girlfriend who went on a mission, if she hadn’t broken up with him after she got home. He and I broke up three times while we were dating, and every time it was about his not wanting to want to bother dating me if I couldn’t certify we were marriage-bound. In hindsight, I think his marriage-focused mindset was a positive trait, even if I found it confining while we were dating. (It’s not that I wasn’t also marriage-focused; it’s just that I felt like I needed time to know him better before I could reassure him that we’d definitely end up married.) (I’m also grateful to those two women for breaking up with him and keeping him single until I could meet him when we were both 24.)

I, on the other hand, wouldn’t ever let my boyfriends call themselves boyfriends, and always claimed the right to date other people–but never did date other people while I had a boyfriend, so it was really just a pretense. I was also more emotionally and physically intimate than I’d wish for my kids to be when they’re dating (with too much “making out” similar to what Shelah described) and I’m still very thankful that I did know enough to stay essentially chaste.

I had a friend in high school who always, always had had a boyfriend (one or another) and when her future husband fell in love with her, he was so certain (and almost certainly correct) that she’d marry while he was gone if he went on a mission that he didn’t go. (I believe there were also worthiness issues eventually.) They are sealed in the temple and active in the church now and from all appearances very happily married–but I do feel sad for him that he missed a mission experience.

Of the four girls in my family, all served missions except for my sister who met her now-husband (a returned missionary) who was also the type who had always had a girlfriend, and who she felt sure would *not* manage to wait for her while she went on a mission, so she gave up her dream of serving a mission (and yes she did pray about the decision, as did he.) She also hadn’t gone to college yet and now, four kids later, is finally taking college classes (and getting stellar grades.) I think she’s sometimes felt envious of her sisters who got to go on missions and go to college before marrying, although she doesn’t feel she chose wrong.

I don’t suppose any of these stories say what advice to give one’s kids. My oldest two are 12 years old (a boy) and 9 years old (a girl) and, based on their personalities and conversations I’ve had with them, I tend to think that they’ll follow my husband’s and my example of marrying in their mid-twenties rather than right out of high school–but I guess that remains to be seen.
mmiles
July 16th, 2009 @ 10:48 pm

Johnna,
I think the theory is that you won’t fall in love too young because you’ll be spending time with other people and enjoy everyone’s company.
Sage
July 17th, 2009 @ 6:17 am

Aren’t we lucky to have the guidelines of the Church to help us! That being said, my first date was kind of before I was 16. My parents allowed me to double date at 14. I would usually “hang out” with two guys. Of course, one liked me and I liked the other one. And we did things like listen to classical music while drinking water. Such rebels!

At 15, I met a guy at a church dance who I thought was cute (he wasn’t a member, but got baptized soon after). I ended up going out with him and even having my first kiss (very innocent) before I was 16. I dated him until he left for college, but off and on. And I still liked the same guy I liked when I was 14, even though I considered this new guy my boyfriend.

We “made out” way too much and hope my kids will be smarter. I was lucky that I was strong, but I did put myself in dumb situations. After the first boyfriend left, I had two other fairly steady boyfriends while in high school, both non-members. I also dated other guys in between the steady boyfriends.

I dated a guy from my stake while I was at BYU and even though I told him I wouldn’t wait for him on his mission, I think he expected me to. I didn’t.

I had a couple more serious boyfriends while the guy from my stake was on his mission. One of them had been on drugs and I helped him get ready for a mission. I was really in love with him, but it wasn’t a good relationship in many ways. So much co-dependence.

Then I went on a mission (after a couple more serious boyfriends…sheesh!)I even got a “Dear Jane” letter while I was out.

Then after I got home, three more serious relationships. And I met my husband. We broke up. I dated someone else (from my mission).

Then we went to the BYU homecoming dance together. We worked things out. After really just five months of dating we were married (about a year after I got home from my mission). We’re coming up on 19 years and have just had our fifth baby! And even though I had felt so much confusion over who was right for me, I am very happy with who I married and how my life is going.

Sorry this is so long. What a soap opera?!!

So, to make this even longer, my oldest son is 16. He hasn’t had a date since his birthday, but last year he had a serious girlfriend, kissing and hand holding.

And I didn’t like her. She was always wearing something immodest and she didn’t communicate very openly with us as adults. We live in the East and there aren’t any LDS girls in his school. I tried hard not to show my dislike and to set limits and encourage him to not date yet. But he knew some of my history and so it was hard to insist. We set rules, but you can’t change the way they feel. She broke up with him and he was heart broken. She didn’t want to follow the standards he did (yes I was so happy to hear that!)

So, now I wonder how to encourage more casual dating. Or should I just hope he doesn’t find anyone he will fall in love with until he’s in college?!

Then there’s my 12 year old who texted me wondering what to say to the girl who wanted to date him! : )
JM
July 17th, 2009 @ 9:03 am

My husband and I were living the same life at the same time across the country in the midwest. We met in high school, steady dated and celebrated our 17th anniversary this past April. Many times I have felt very strongly that we were very much meant for each other. I don’t know if any two people could be any more meant for each other. After all these years we are happier than ever, closer than ever, and feel like we have everything we have dreamed of.

BUT, I have three sons and I am the YW president. I too want to see them stay away from steady dating. I guess I subscribe to the thought that if it’s meant to be it’s meant to be. Like your dating through college, you did date, but your heart was reserved for the one you needed to be with. If my boys meet someone they feel strongly about I won’t tell them they can’t date her, just that they need a different date between dates. I don’t know if it will be the best tactic, but we’ll see.

As for me, I am grateful every day to be married to my best friend and I thank God every day for giving me such wonderful gift. I love that my husband knows me better and longer than anyone else I know. And I love that we became grown-ups together. Happy Anniversary!
BYU Women's Services
July 17th, 2009 @ 11:44 am

From the perspective of the (semi) child you are wondering how to counsel (I’m 19 and a junior at BYU)I have to agree with several things that have been said: to trust your kids, but to let them know where you stand; to be very open with your own dating experiences and what you wish you had done differently; and to be open but prudent in talking about sex.

My parents helped all of us kids be very goal oriented, independent, and individual, encouraging finding ourselves through Christ so that we would never fall into the trap of needing a boyfriend/girlfriend to feel worthwhile. However, I don’t think that’s the kind of relationship you are concerned for.

I knew that falling in love in high school was real and possible although I knew it wouldn’t happen for me because of the other experiences I wanted and knew I needed. But it happened for my best friend.

We wondered together why something so GOOD could be considered bad from the prophet’s counsel not to steady date.

Certainly there is a morality concern, but he lived on the other side of the country. Certainly an emotional investment/consuming concern, but they didn’t get wrapped up in that. So, was it still un-okay? And how was she supposed to date other boys when her heart was given away?

So here’s what I think, but only from my own experience: teach your kids to avoid steady dating if at all possible, and they will never get to the point of being in love and having any of the issues. But, if they so happen to fall in love, tell them how you honestly feel about it, set limits TOGETHER and talk often about how and where things are going–monitor it closely but not too closely.

Jeopordizing trust is the worst thing that could happen in that situation.
Such an interesting question of what to do for these situations.
Sue
July 17th, 2009 @ 4:04 pm

I, too, met my husband when I was 16. After forcing myself to date other people for a year, when I found myself breaking dates at the last minute because I couldn’t stand the thought of being with someone else even for an evening, I made the decision to stop accepting dates from other people. That was right for me. He was “the one,” and I knew it.

Having said that, I always hoped, for my children’s sake, that they wouldn’t fall too hard for anyone early on. I just think that’s easier.

On the other hand, I sometimes think many of our LDS kids date too little in high school. It’s like they don’t get enough practice asking someone out or accepting/rejecting an invitation. My husband is bishop of our singles ward, and I can’t tell you how many of these young people have fewer dating skills than I had when I was far younger than they are. The whole “hang out” idea lasts so long that by the time they need to find a partner, they’re still “hanging out” like a bunch of 14-year-olds! Many of the guys, some of them 25, 26, or more and accomplished in their careers, are scared to death to ask a young woman out on a date, let alone close the deal on a marriage. =)

It also occurs to me that, when you wait too long (well into young adulthood) to date someone more than a couple of times, you may in some cases be more susceptible to making errors in dating judgment. I’ve seen young adult women with strong testimonies (even RMs) get totally carried away and manipulated by guys with only one thing on their minds. And vice versa! Violations of the law of chastity are not as uncommon with young adults as we would wish. When it’s all so new and exciting, it can be pretty heady.

I began dating at age 14. (Okay, I’m old!…and the 16-year-old dating guideline had not yet been set. Because I was 2 years ahead of myself in school, my parents allowed me to begin dating earlier than they might otherwise have done.) Anyway, I learned how to draw the line on physical intimacies at any early age, when I was still living at home with all the safety, rules and security that entails. By the time I went away to college, I knew how to shut such people down fast. I was not about to be taken advantage of or swept off my feet, because I already knew the ropes. I wasn’t experiencing my first disorienting rush of activated hormones as a full-on (probably blown-away) adult with enough freedom to make mistakes easy.

I guess what I mean to say is that inexperience can make you vulnerable. And a long draught is not necessarily conducive to self control. JMHO.
Paula
July 17th, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

Lovely Post! Tow ideas. The first comes from my good friend who just paid her 18 year-old daughter $1,000 cash. It was a bribe for not kissing a boy before her 18th birthday.

That said, I kissed a few boys before birthday number 18. I was/am active in church and dated exclusively in high school and married at age 20, in the temple. My personal standard was no french kissing before marriage. And looking back, I think that’s a good cut-off for physical contact, don’t you?
Paula
July 17th, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

A comment on Sue’s comment: Reminds me of the “Parenting with Love and Logic” school of thought. Make small mistakes younger age before the stakes are too high. So true, so true. I’d rather see youth go on dates and be able to chat with their parents about it than have them experience dating and hormones for the first time away from home. There is something to be said for exposing your kids to other kids at a younger age. (It’s a big part of why I don’t advocate homeschooling–I’d rather my child learn to say no in elementary school than have to face peers, who hold riskier temptations than stealing candy, for the first time in college.)
Melissa M.
July 17th, 2009 @ 6:42 pm

Sue, you said so well what I was trying to get at with my comment. I do think our youth date too little, and I would rather handle all of the first boyfriend/girlfriend issues when my children are a little younger than 19—I think that’s what I’m currently thinking.
Maggie May
July 17th, 2009 @ 10:45 pm

Wow! I just wrote a post called Boy Seventeen about my first experience in love, with a damaged young boy. I’ve known my husband since we were 19 and never loved another since. Great post…great picture Love the hair
Zina
July 18th, 2009 @ 12:28 am

Paula, most homeschoolers do have plenty of social interactions. (I did.)

I’ve been thinking some more about this topic (not homeschool thing, but the topic of falling in love young) and thinking that kids often form a mental map of how their life will go based on their parents’ experiences–for example, most of my female cousins who served missions also had mothers who served missions, and most of my friends who went to college had parents who did. Growing up, I had a friend whose mother had married at age 17, and I would always tell her (and I’m not even kidding that I was only 11 or 12 when I used to say this to her,) “Don’t get married young! Let’s both wait until we’re 29 until we find someone and get married.” She got married when she was a few weeks shy of her 18th birthday. Her husband was her legal guardian for a little while. Anyway, maybe this idea that kids often repeat their parents’ life patterns is why I don’t anticipate that kids will marry young; I think they won’t be expecting to meet a future spouse in high school, which makes it far less likely to happen. Not impossible; just less likely.

I’ve also been thinking that if a kid does fall in love young you should take it seriously and respect it–otherwise you send the message that they’re not competent to handle affairs of the heart, which could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But you can also require of them that they still live like a kid while they are one–i.e. their family, school, and church obligations still have to be kept. And now I’m remembering something my mom once said, after watching Bahz Lurhman’s Romeo and Juliet: She said she’d always thought R & J was kind of a stupid story because Romeo and Juliet both make such foolish, melodramatic decisions, but that she’d realized that the tragedy is in the fact that *because* their families feud, R & J are kept them from getting to learn and grow in their relationship in normal and healthy ways; it’s the families’ overprotectiveness that pressures R&J to take their normal adolescent foolishness to dangerous (and tragic) levels.
m&m
July 18th, 2009 @ 2:22 am

So I’m thinking about this whole date-to-get-experience thing, and I hope I’m not going overboard by commenting again, or by what I’m saying. But I can’t help but think that maybe there is more to all of this than just being concerned about chastity or about dating experience.

I look back on my dating life (which lasted more than a decade, if you include high school) and what really kept me from marrying the wrong guy at the wrong time (I had plenty of opportunities, starting my freshman year of college, a few times over, actually, and then a few more times after that) was the Spirit.

Yes, there are dating skills that are important, but can’t that be accomplished w/o steady dating? I don’t think kids NEED to have serious dating experience in high school to be able to make these decisions later.

I guess in my mind (not w/o real-life experience of my own), I think the core is helping kids really learn how to hear God’s voice in their lives. The dating rules are not ends in and of themselves. They fit into a larger picture, imo. — to help keep kids on track so they can stay close to God in the bigger picture — going on missions, seeking guidance about decisions, acting and not being acted upon (either by their biology or by others) — being strong and exercising agency rather than just being swept away by emotion and passion and hormones (or by desperation or peer pressure or fear of not getting married soon enough). I think sometimes we may be apt to respond out of fear of what might happen, rather than help them be prepared spiritually for ALL the crossroads and challenges they will inevitably face.

In short, I think I’m more worried about inexperience w/ the Spirit than I am w/ inexperience w/ dating.

So…I think trusting our kids includes trusting that they can get the answers and guidance they need to make these decisions — not just to stay morally clean, but to also not make a decision to marry just cuz someone is there, or just cuz everyone else is doing it, or whatever. To really go to God to find out what their life plan is. That can protect re: the law of chastity as well as help w/ major decisions. At some point, they need to know that they can make these decisions — and that we have confidence that they can — that even if they didn’t date a lot in high school (which would be following prophetic counsel), God can help them know what to do.

I just don’t think we need to reinvent the wheel on the dating rules, just really help our kids turn to God — and trust Him that He’ll help them! I found God in a significant way through that whole journey of decision-making. What I learned from that process is STILL impacting my life today. (And the only thing I would do differently is date less seriously in high school. Seriously. Oh, and worry less about it all…God really was in charge.)

p.s. Will someone remind me that I wrote this when I am pulling my own hair out with worry in a few years?
Angela
July 18th, 2009 @ 9:41 am

First of all, THANK YOU for all the intelligent and insightful comments. What a treasure trove of experience and advice.

Secondly, I’M SORRY I haven’t been here to comment right along with you the last couple of days!! My family and I left to go camping/boating Thurs afternoon and I thought my husband was bringing his laptop w/ WiFi . . . but (horror of horrors!!) he left it at home!! Two whole days without the internet! Actually, it was kind of nice not to have access, except for the fact that I felt terrible leaving just as this conversation got started. So forgive me!

In a nutshell, here’s what I’ll say about all of your comments: I really appreciate all of the sound, measured advice about how to treat our teenagers with respect and trust, while protecting them enough that they’re able to keep the spirit with them (a great way to look at things, M&M.) I also appreciate hearing everyone else’s stories from their youth.

As far as philosophies go, though, I will say that the “never date two people in a row” rule probably works well in *preventing* your teenager from falling in love . . . but if your teenager already has? The idea makes me a little uncomfortable, given my own experience. It would have felt extremely unnatural for me—even wrong—to be dating other guys when my heart belonged to someone else. It was one thing when my husband was on his mission, but if he wasn’t? And my parents were asking me to make him sit home alone while another guy pays to take me to a movie and out to dinner and tries to kiss me on the front porch? That would not have worked for me at all. In a strange way, it would have gone against my basic, core sense of what was right. If my parents asked me to betray myself that way (and I know betray’s a strong word, but the desire to be loyal tho a person you love is a deeply rooted spiritual feeling, imo) it could have undermined the trust I had with them. I would have rather them asked me to *break up* with him, rather than pretend he didn’t exist and I didn’t love him every other week.

And besides, how many guys would want to pay for my dinner knowing that I was in love with someone else? I was cute enough, but not THAT cute.

I also think Sue makes some excellent points. While I don’t want my kids to steady date in high school, I also don’t want them to remain so distant from anything approaching a relationship—only taking part in the “hanging out” phenomenon that seems so prevalent today—that they have no idea how one on one male/female relationships work by the time they’re marriage age. I also would worry, personally, that my kids would fall for the first person they were “allowed” to date one on one and make some hasty decisions about marriage. What if they mistook that heady feeling of being alone with a member of the opposite sex for true love? With the short engagements so common in Mormon culture, there’s a real possibility that an inexperienced 20 year old could make a big mistake–whereas an inexperienced 16 year old would still be at home, bound by parental rules, and years away from thoughts of marriage.

Ultimately, it all comes down to our individual children, though. Different kids are going to require different parenting styles—some will need protection from dating too much and/or loving too readily, and others will need encouragement to date more and to allow themselves to trust members of the opposite sex.

Thanks again for all your great comments.

Oh, and Maggie May, that picture was taken in 1992, when my husband and I were first engaged. You should have seen my hair in 1988 when we first started dating. My kids find it a constant source of amusement.
m&m
July 18th, 2009 @ 11:56 am

Different kids are going to require different parenting styles—

Yup, great point. Keeps us always on our toes, huh!

But my only caveat is that I think we ought to be so careful to not make up things out of fear. I know it goes w/o saying that we need the Spirit, but I know from personal experience that making up rules out of fear can only add to the problem.
Sage
July 19th, 2009 @ 6:31 am

m&m, thanks for your insights about the importance of teaching our kids to know God and seek the Spirit. You articulated that well. Looking back on my experiences, I know that I was blessed to have a relationship with my Heavenly Father and his Son that kept me safe from making too big of a mistake. I do wish I had kissed less, but was blessed to be spared from more difficult regrets.

Now I just need to learn how to trust my son amd help him develop a stronger connection to the Spirit! How about a lengthy post on that!?
Suvi
July 21st, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

I’ve been reading these comments with interest. I’ve had a dozen years of dating “experience” and can honestly say that I think some of it hasn’t really been worth it. What has kept me temple worthy? I’ve made plenty of mistakes, but i think that what worked for me was an understanding of the commandments and a relationship with the spirit. My parents set the example, but let me have a fairly free hand at dating (I was the one who didn’t get $100 as promised at 18 for not kissing anyone). I’ve made some stupid mistakes, but they’ve been mine and I’ve survived. However, now I see them with my younger siblings, suddenly having taken an overly zealous approach to NEVER allowing them to single date and judging those kids whose dating practices aren’t “in-line” with church leaders. So far, the kids have been good, but i can guarantee you that it would’ve driven me right into the arms of a young teenage lover.

So, I agree with all those who have said to use the spirit and trust your kids. Let them know where you stand, where they stand, and teach them to hope for something more than teenage puppy love, whenever it may come.
Ally Condie
July 25th, 2009 @ 4:23 pm

I love that picture so much.

I don’t have any advice about parenting teenagers (my kids are still tiny) and I’ve appreciated thinking about this and all the advice offered here.

Also, side note: I had to change one of my LDS YA books for my publisher because I had a couple who was steady dating in high school. That was apparently a giant no-no and I hadn’t realized it would be such a huge problem, since we all ignored that advice in high school too.