The plan of slavation is a plan to exalt us, not merely save us by barely scraping by. God did not create us to be scrapers. He also did not institute a plan that only exalts a few. It is truly a masterful and sound plan when we finally realize its true aspects. But we are not going to get there until we realize that the path leading to salvation is a path of perfection- we will become perfect someday overcoming our obstacles one by one.

Yes that is what I was saying. I feel we place a lot of weight on an idea that Christ can or will save someone from their sins. It is this reason I believe that we assume pretty much most of the world can be saved in their sins into glory. By this I specifically mean that we assume that many will be saved without repenting and baptism. It

Rob, your comment reminds me of a scripture- “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” Alma 11:37

We can be redeemed from sin, but we cannot be redeemed with our sins still intact. At least I think that’s what you’re saying.

I was away from the church for almost 10 years and came back to the church with a different new found attitude. It was while I was away from the church that i realized that the “spirit” still was with me guiding me, helping me. I also found that there were a lot of people outside the church who are guided by the spirit. It gave me a boost knowing that a lot of my early indoctrination in mormonism is based off of ideas and theories and not a lot of hard evidence.

It was about the time I came back to church that I realized that our “plan of salvation” as expounded upon in the holy Book of Mormon was almost nonexistant in latter day interpretation. Latter day doctrine in our time espouses the idea of a multi-tiered heaven where even some of the most “unrepentant” wicked people are saved. In stark contrast, the Book of Mormon is quite clear that Christ has no ability to save the unrepentant. It was a hard time (still is in some degree) for me realizing that the “plan of salvation” has a lot of problems that need addressing. In mainstream Christianity they have a very strict dichotomy of heaven and hell as found in the New Testament. Even our Book of Mormon echoes this same exact dichotomy as found in the Bible. I guess it bothers me quite greatly now when we hear so much repeated every Sunday in church about the different kingdoms and who is going where. I think some things need to be re-examined because the truth is not what we assume it to be. For starters- Christ has no power to ever save any unrepentant whoremonger from hell, even if that whoremonger aknowledges the Savior.

As was mentioned before, without repentance- sincere repentance followed by baptism, no one will ever find their way out of the devils grasp. Our Book of Mormon makes that very clear.

Where have we gone wrong? By assuming that somehow Christ can get around some eternal fixed law and save the wicked into a realm of glory. he has no such power- I promise you that! What is it that is said?…And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 28:21)

No, you didn’t misunderstand it. I was reporting the way I think he believes, based on what I’ve heard him say in F&T meeting. I don’t think Christ can save an unrepentant porn addict either. I know his wife is counting on an eternal marriage with him. I don’t understand their doublethink.

Anthony, thanks for the personal response. I don’t have teenagers, but maybe I’ll pick up your book anyway.

Recently we had a GA visit and give training to YW leaders. She emphasized the need to teach repentance more to the YW, every chance we get. So I’ve been doing that. The problem is, you don’t get the same response with a repentance lesson as you do with a divine nature lesson. Everyone leaves class knowing that there is something they need to work on, if the Spirit has been there. So instead of getting hugs, smiles, and happy faces after a lesson you get droopy heads and sideways glances, it can be hard as a leader. I am trying to balance my lessons, to let the YW know how much God loves them and that’s why they should turn to him to repent. But it just seems like the word “repent” has bad connotations and the youth think it’s just for people who are “bad”.

Melinda, I hope I misunderstood this: “Christ will get him there, porn or not, just the way he is.” Actually Christ won’t. As part of the repentance process he will have to change and become a new person through the blood of the lamb. Repentance isn’t a magic wand that makes everything all better. Change is part of Repentance. Repentance is change through Christ.

Related to this whole idea I think in the church we have misunderstandings about what actually constitutes a sin.

Anthony- I was a student at West High seminary many moons ago. It changed my life. Thanks for your service there and for all the youth you impact!

Thanks for your comments, and for your focus on repentance. Like Angela said, the book does talk a lot about the need for repentance. In particular, there is a whole chapter called “The Righteous Cycle” that I think you would enjoy, all of which is centered on the idea that we must continually have faith and repent to make and keep covenants. One line from this chapter says, “Repentance is the key.” I think you are spot on in our need to come unto Christ and continually repent and part of the process of making and keeping covenants.

I can understand you dismay over people who misunderstand the idea that once they’ve made their temple covenants then they’re good to go–but in this book (and in other books I’ve read on the subject) the emphasis is on a continuing CYCLE of repentance and covenant-making, which is the whole purpose of the sacrament and renewing our covenants each week.

But you’re right: without repentance, our covenants are meaningless. This is the whole purpose of the atonement and the plan of salvation. I know this concept is very clear in this book, at least, and if it wasn’t touched on in the interview it was my fault for not asking the right questions.