Rich Girl

Posted by Melissa M | September 9, 2009 | 81 Comments

277F3FF0-2D3B-463C-B29B-0E2EE4534E91 As a BYU freshman living in the dorms, my daughter made up an excuse every time I invited her and her roommates over for Sunday dinner. When I finally pinned her down, she confessed that she was embarrassed. “I don’t want them to see where we live,” she said. It was the same when she recently started dating a boy she met at school. She put off bringing him home as long as possible, wanting to keep her upbringing a secret.

I get it. How we came to live in this house, in this neighborhood, is a story for another day, but suffice it to say that, like my daughter, I’ve felt my share of shame and guilt over where we live, worrying I’ll be relegated to a stereotype before people get to know me. And because I’ve felt defined by it, I’ve been ambivalent over our economic situation ever since I got married twenty years ago.

You see, while I grew up in an average, middle class home, my husband comes from a wealthy family, owners of a large company founded by my father-in-law fifty years ago. When my sister’s husband set my husband and me up on a blind date, he joked that he was doing it because we needed some money in the family. Little did I know that this rich boy and I would actually fall in love. And though I knew our backgrounds were different, I had no idea how much his wealth would impact my life.

I admit that at first it was heady—I enjoyed the big diamond ring, the honeymoon in Maui, the outings on his family’s boat and trips to the house in Palm Springs. But I knew before the honeymoon was even over that money now defined me in new ways, precipitating a ten-year-long identity crisis. It didn’t seem to matter that I was me—a shy, bookish, smart girl with a college degree—or that I’d been on a mission, or that I’d grown up in Australia. Suddenly I was a rich girl, and that seemed to overshadow everything else. I felt it every time we went out to eat and my husband whipped out his black American Express card and we were treated with such deference that I blushed. I felt it in the awed looks my friends gave me at our wedding reception. I felt it when, after I complained to a family member about having morning sickness while struggling to write my master’s thesis and adjust to marriage, I was asked, “Why are you complaining? You have money.” The unspoken assumption: if you have money, your life is swell and you’ll never have any problems.

Which is silly, of course. Because having money hasn’t protected me from gut-wrenching heartaches, from loneliness and feelings of inadequacy, from bouts of depression and anxiety, from health challenges and miscarriage and marital struggles (one of the biggest of those struggles being our differences in handling money). It hasn’t protected my siblings-in-law, who are ten and twelve years older than my husband, from their own heartaches as they’ve watched their grown children struggle with out-of-wedlock pregnancy, divorce, and drug addiction.

In fact, in many ways money has been a burden as we’ve wrestled with how to be wise stewards, how to balance generosity with discretion and prudence, how to keep pride at bay and raise grounded children who know how to work and who won’t ruin themselves with their trust funds. Believe it or not, for years after I was married I thought I couldn’t be a writer or express my opinions because I was afraid no one would take me seriously, as if my life experiences were somehow less valid. And I’ve lain awake more than a few nights after Sunday School lessons and Conference talks, worrying about our spiritual welfare and whether we’d make it into heaven while picturing camels trying to squeeze through a needle’s eye.

I know what some of you are thinking. It’s something along the lines of what George Pace, a former religion professor at BYU, used to say: “Money is a great trial. I keep praying for that trial.” Yes, having money can be a blessing, and I don’t intend to minimize the very real challenges of not having enough money, especially when so many people are struggling. I’ve gotten a taste of this side, too. Last fall, after fifty years of solid and lucrative business, my father-in-law’s company collapsed, and all of the family wealth—the stock, the trust funds, the charitable funds, the inheritance—vanished overnight. Just like that. And after the shock dissipated and the fear and worry settled in, I was surprised to find that what I felt most was………relief. Freedom. And in the refiner’s fire of the past year, as we’ve struggled to regain our financial footing we’ve learned—again—that money doesn’t define us, after all. That we really can’t take it with us. And that our lives are still rich in all of the ways that matter.

What lessons have you learned about money, particularly in the past year? Has money been an issue in your marriage? What do you teach your children about money? How can we reconcile temporal wealth with spiritual well-being? How can we avoid judging others by the size of their wallets?

Comments

81 Responses to “Rich Girl”

Selwyn
September 9th, 2009 @ 4:45 am

In the past year, I’ve learnt that money can buy sanity. Not huge buckets thereof, but just a little sip of sane when I so desperately need it. That buying myself a nailpolish that I love was not a waste of money, it was an investment in my mental wellbeing. Over a year ago I just would not have considered spending money on myself, at all.

That being said, I’ve learnt that having money put aside somewhere safe is a comfort and blessing. While I no longer have the stress of dealing with my husband’s different money management philosophies, I have the stress of having all money decisions and financial planning totally up to me. It can be scary.

I don’t buy into the whole “having money = reward for righteousness” idea, either. It’s damaging and belittling to everyone. I pay my tithing, support one charity, and try to be a good steward over what I’ve been given. I hope others do the same, but it just doesn’t concern or worry me.

Unless they have awesome nail polish on. THEN it’s my business!
Lucy
September 9th, 2009 @ 5:46 am

Still, if you have money, you can pay the bills. I worry Every. Single. Day about whether I have any money or not. Lots of money would be a welcome blessing that I will never have. And I gotta admit, it’s very hard not being resentful of those who do.
Leslie
September 9th, 2009 @ 6:33 am

Great post, Melissa. I think people often don’t understand what it’s like on the other side of the fence. There are a lot of expectations, and obligations that come with money. I had friends growing up who had to wonder if people were dating them or friends with them for their name or money and felt those self-conscious feelings.

My parents never made tons of money, but they were very good with it, we always had a nice home, comfortable cars, the things we needed. They were never extravagant and taught us to not go into debt for anything but a house (or education if needed). Which I count as WISE counsel. We got married just as I finished grad school and both of us brought savings into our marriage. We’ve have managed to never have any debt beyond a mortgage, which has been a blessing but has also required discipline. We try hard to save, have 6 month reserve, 529s, roth IRAs, 401Ks savings, mission funds, and be generous in our giving both in the church and otherwise. (we talk to our children regularly about what these are and why we do them) It’s not always easy to keep such a longterm view, we might not have all the cool toys, but I sleep well at night knowing we aren’t on the edge. My husband and I have very similar views on money- so it hasn’t been an issue in our marriage.

I do try hard to teach my children. We talk about money, how we use it, why we save it, the rules of interests, credit cards etc (even thought they are 8,4, and 1.5) it needs to be part of their everyday knowledge if you want them to be fluent as adults. I think one of the larger problems is children turn into adults all to often without any sort of financial training. They don’t always understand the ramifications of and ins and outs of things in the financial world and therefore wind up in not very good financial health. My dad was good about teaching us- (having me start my first IRA the first year I paid federal taxes). I encourage my kids to deposit their $ int he bank when they get it instead of spending it on dumb things- once it’s in the bank, it’s more trouble to get it out and and makes you think about what you really want to spend it on,
Kay
September 9th, 2009 @ 6:34 am

Money can bring peace of mind. Not in everything of course, but knowing there is enough to pay the mortgage and manage life in genral is a good thing. The stress that comes with worrying over bills etc can do terrible things to a person and a marraige. My husband started work this week after nothing in the last 6 months. The relief is incredible. We had savings and food storage which was a great blessing, as there is no way we would still be afloat without them. Financially I no longer feel safe. The savings are gone. The new salary is one third less than the previous one but we will work around it.

Living in an age of entitlement is not easy. We have 3 children and have tried to teach them the blessing of work and reward. All money must be earned in our house. There is no free pocket money. If they want something they have to save up for it or wait for christmas/birthdays to come along. I do not care what their friends have, how much pocket money said friends get. I ignore my eldest daughter’s tantrums about how unfair it all is. She knows the rules in our house. Thre is money available if you are willing to earn it, we will help you get things by offering extra work if you are keen. Sadly she is firstly rather lazy and also thinks she is hard done by. She does very little and consequently earns very little. Too bad!
Justine
September 9th, 2009 @ 6:36 am

I’ve learned that people judge harshly those who have money. I’ve learned that our family can live in an attitude of abundance or scarcity, whether we have or have not – it’s our choice. I’ve learned that savings, no matter how much or how little, brings peace to my spirit.

I’ve learned there really is a difference between new money and old money. I’ve seen families fall apart from the stress of new money. It breaks my heart to watch. There is something to be learned about the management of wealth, and I don’t think it’s stresses are fully appreciated. It seems like an ‘easy burden’. But when the stakes are not temporal but spiritual, the challenge is magnified.
Jenny
September 9th, 2009 @ 7:26 am

After twenty years of being the bill-payer in our marriage, I passed the baton to my husband just last month. I can’t tell you how free-ing that simple transfer of responsibility was. I can now (with my whole heart) support his feelings, as they run the gamut, while he works to secure a financial balance in our home. It’s not as cut and dried as maintaining a balance–there is real anxiety to being a proper steward of money, no matter how little or how much.

Great post, Michelle.
Jenny
September 9th, 2009 @ 7:28 am

I meant Melissa! Great job.
Matt
September 9th, 2009 @ 7:38 am

I think it’s very interesting to think about how our attitudes towards money are formed. I consider myself to be a generally pro-capitalist kind of person who does not begrudge others their well-earned fortunes.

But when I was 10 or so, my mom desperately needed an organ transplant. The clock was ticking, and we needed to raise about the equivalent of about $60,000 just to get her onto the transplant waiting list. In my 10-year-old way of thinking, it was very easy to say, “If that guy could make due with one fewer marble-tiled bathroom in his mansion, my mom could get her transplant.” I’ve held on to a part my resentment of big houses and expensive cars ever since.

So, is it possible to not begrudge someone their wealth, but still roll my eyes at their big houses?
JM
September 9th, 2009 @ 7:40 am

I’ve seen both sides.
I grew up poor, in the wealthy part of town, so I was very aware of my economic status. Not having enough money is a strain.

My husband didn’t have money growing up either, so when we married we started off with nothing. We both worked hard and today we live very comfortably. We have always sought the Lord’s guidance in job decisions, we have always paid a full tithing, and I quit working when my first child was born, even though the numbers didn’t add up to nearly enough. I do believe that our efforts to be obedient have been a factor in our success. However, I don’t believe that means someone with less is not being obedient. How do I reconcile that? I don’t know. All I know is that to give ourselves full credit for our success seems very ungrateful to me.

My siblings grew up with a resentment toward those with money. Now that I have a little bit (I wouldn’t call myself wealthy), I realize that whether one has money are not, life is still a series of challenges, trials, and joys. How my children deal with money is now one of our challenges. Making sure they realize that they are very fortunate and that there are many other people who have much less than they do is a priority. I believe that those who are blessed with more are obligated to share with those who have less, through generous fast offerings, charitable donations, bringing extra food to the ward dinner, helping a YW pay for girls camp, etc…

Money is a tough one because it is such a necessity for survival, but the same rules apply here as with anything else. Judge not. Sometimes we need to remind ourselves that no one gets through this life without a struggle, and we often are unaware of the trials someone else is facing.
Brenda
September 9th, 2009 @ 8:41 am

Yes, I would like that trial. I’m sick of being broke.
FoxyJ
September 9th, 2009 @ 8:47 am

My husband and I both grew up in families with very little money, and poor management of it as well. My parents’ reaction, and his mother’s as well, was to cultivate a sort of ‘reverse pride’ towards those who are wealthy and to feel proud of not having money. Now that we are both adults we have realized that our attitudes are wrong, and that we have choices on how to make our money and how to spend it. We’ve also vowed to be more realistic with our kids and to have a healthy attitude about money, regardless of how much we have. We don’t want them to grow up always feeling like they are ‘less than’ others.

During the last year we’ve actually had some interesting experiences with money. Last year my husband graduated with his second master’s degree and got a very good job. We suddenly have way more money than we’ve ever had in our 8 years of marriage-which were all spent as students. We do have some big expenses and are trying to buy our first home, but sometimes I feel weird when so many people are struggling and we’re doing better than ever before. It’s also hard for us to adjust to a new way of life and realize that we are not our parents and that we don’t have to be. During the last few years I’ve realized that money itself is not a problem, it’s our attitudes towards and what we do with it that can be one.
Merry Michelle
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:00 am

Well said, Melissa! I can relate to everything you wrote 100%! This is a really tough one. My life has been an erratic mixture of Bishop’s storehouse and jockey club seats, worldwide travel and having the lights flicking off because of a missed utility payment. This trial alone has produced some of my lowest lows and some of my deepest, most enduring trust in the atonement.

I really used to think that honesty + hard work = success. I no longer believe that. I believe we came here to learn and be tested. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in working hard, but now the focus is on having sufficient for our needs (a definition that keeps narrowing).
cheryl
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:02 am

I understand what you are saying. What I find interesting is how perfectly fine it is to have “open season” on anyone with money, but if you judge someone for not having any, it’s deemed cruel. A little unfair, in my opinion –we shouldn’t judge either side.

Character, though…well…

I think those of us who struggle financially dream of the burden of money because financial stability is a must in order to accomplish many of the things we would like to do. My father once mentioned in passing to me: I wish we had the kind of money that would allow us to serve a mission or two together (meaning my mom and him), or to set up a scholarship. I would love to have a scholarship fund for some students –even one! –at BYU or something.”
He just wants to be able to give back and serve. But he can’t, because they also live paycheck to paycheck. The ironic part is that it has nothing to do with frugality; my parents are awesome at that. It just has to do with low incomes, only 5 years from retirement.

Being in debt is worse, too. Debt is the biggest burden I have ever had to bear. It is worse than the miscarriage. It is worse than the Depression. It is worse than my husband traveling and going to school…Debt is the worst. I hate it more than anything because we dont’ have financial security. What stinks about it is that sometimes I remind myself that my husband and I both have Life insurance –so if one of us dies (heaven forbid!!), the kids will be okay.
Isn’t that morbid?!?

So, yeah, money doesn’t equate happiness –I totally agree. But it sure does bring some peace of mind.
Michelle L.
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:29 am

I love this post Melissa. And I love the comments. I’d love to respond to every single one.

I live in a big house. We built it five years ago and it looked so cute and cottagey on the plants. It’s much bigger than I anticipated and the neighbors make rude comments about it all the time. Hey, we’d sell it if we could, but no one is buying big houses these days. It’s a great house for kids, it’s big enough to host a weekly scripture group and parties, but the awareness that people are talking about me, that people resent me for my house keeps me from truly enjoying it. And our house makes us look a lot richer than we really are. We can’t afford trips to Hawaii and we can’t afford to buy cleaning supplies from every door-to-door salesmen.

Money does ease worries. When my mom was sick this spring it was nice to be able to pull out a credit card and buy plane tickets to go see her. But I was also racked with guilt that I’d been too cheap to visit her earlier. And my dad’s grief has certainly been eased by the fact that he can afford to fly back and forth between family members and eat at nice restaurants.

I wish money was more even. I wish many things were even– that I could be pregnant without throwing up every day, that my son could have as many friends as the next kid and that my mother didn’t have to die before her hair turned gray.
Merry Michelle
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:29 am

I just reread my words and thought they may have come across as fairly jaded or pessimistic. But what I meant is that financial success or failure is not a direct result of personal righteousness or honesty or even hard work. Sometimes I think it may just be, well, good luck!

And in my own life I have to say that even in the most dire of circumstances I have always felt that I was held in the Lord’s hands and that He has consecrated any and all suffering to my ultimate good. I have been richly blessed at times financially and at times with thousands of other resources(and sometimes with both!): seamless health, powerful peace, close family, heavenly friends, laughter, knowledge, and the list goes on and on…
Kathryn P.
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:40 am

I enjoyed reading this post because when I moved into the humble condo section of Melissa’s ward, I arrived with all the stereotypical prejudices against rich people that Melissa worried about. Many years later, this is what I’ve learned about money from being in Melissa’s ward:
1. Money doesn’t protect you from death, disease, and problem teenagers.
2. Money doesn’t prevent you from being a powerful disciple of Christ.
3. Obsession with money can destroy you and your family.
4. People who live in big houses are sometimes “house poor” which makes me grateful that we live humbly, but have money left over for travel and fun.
4. Money is just one resource. I am also abundantly blessed when it comes to education, creativity, spiritual experiences, cool children, an amazing spouse, adorable friends, tender mercies, and a great ward!
Sunny
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:44 am

One of my family members married into money. I think her initial experience was much like yours: Cruises, shopping sprees, vacations, fancy restaurants, etc. I imagine she felt like she was living a fairy tale. It didn’t take long, however, for her to realize that it was hard for others to simply be happy for her good fortune. She felt lonely. What would be seen as simply sharing highlights among other family members was seen as bragging when she did it. I know she held back when asked about recent vacations or other fun. She felt guilty.

On the other side, she also felt uncomfortable sharing burdens. There was an attitude, as the author expressed, that frustrating, heart-breaking struggles were lessened by the money. She was seen as ungrateful. She also struggled with the line between accepting her in-laws money and making her own way. This was a real dilemma for her, yet again she knew how spoiled she sounded talking about it.

When she and her husband bought their first house her sister told an aunt how much the house cost and then said, “It’s not a big deal though. They could buy five of those houses right now with cash”. Not true, and really embarrassing.

My husband and I have been broke students for most of our marriage, and trying to grow a business the other part. Money (or the lack thereof) is a constant shadow. There are definitely times I have wished (ok, prayed) for a windfall. Yes, money does relieve some very real stresses. However, having watched my family member I realize that, while I would still like to have more money, it isn’t without it’s own problems. I also realize that the same attitudes I have about money would follow me into more money and I would still have financial struggles, just different ones. As we are working hard to improve our financial outlook I realize I am learning financial lessons I REALLY need and I will be a better steward if we ever do have more money. Still, I wouldn’t turn away the Publisher’s Clearing House prize patrol…
Melissa M.
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:53 am

Thank you for your comments so far. Money is such a hot button issue and I appreciate those of you who have shared your views. Like Michelle L., I wish I could respond to every single comment. A few observations: it’s interesting how our backgrounds shape our attitudes towards money. Also, I do know that when you don’t have enough money, it’s hard not to think about anything else. Money provides security and freedom and, like Cheryl says, the ability to contribute as well.

I also know, as I wrote in my post, that having too much can be problematic, as well. Like Justine, I’ve seen families self-destruct because of money, especially new money. And the spiritual dangers are real. When I was in counseling for depression (and money was one of the main issues that came up, over and over) my counselor said, “Self-indulgence is spiritual suicide,” and that phrase has stuck with me. It’s far too easy to be self-indulgent when you have money, and it can wreak havoc with one’s spiritual well-being.

One thing I didn’t mention in my post is that, because my husband had financial security handed to him from the beginning, this has been its own peculiar burden, because he has felt the need to prove himself in spectacular ways—and while I’m glad he wasn’t content to coast along, his drive to prove himself has been a burden on both of us.

I agree with FoxyJ that it’s more about our attitude towards money and what we do with it, no matter how much we have.
Michaela Stephens
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:01 am

“What lessons have you learned about money, particularly in the past year? Has money been an issue in your marriage? What do you teach your children about money? How can we reconcile temporal wealth with spiritual well-being? How can we avoid judging others by the size of their wallets?”

Money has been an issue in our marriage. The first 5 years my husband and I really wanted to start budgeting but we weren’t sure how to do it. Consequently had a lot of difficulty deciding how much was too much to spend on things and we tended to accuse each other of overspending even though we hadn’t agreed on how much was okay.

Since keeping a budget, our financial decisions are much more unified, which has made our marriage more peaceful.

Reconciling wealth with spiritual well-being is a very sensitive topic. Fortunately, Christ has already made statements about it—with the camel and needle idea as has already been mentioned. I suspect that Christ advocated immediately divesting oneself of wealth because of how it tends to become a burden and a snare and becomes the thing people often define themselves by and judge their worth by and trust in and so on. Of course, divesting oneself of wealth is of all things incredibly difficult. It requires an unselfishness and humility not to be found in the natural man.

For those who have not yet progressed to this point, I think the prophet’s counsel to be modest in spending applies. If a person with the resources to afford the biggest and best chooses to buy what is adequate to meet their needs and MODERATELY satisfy their desires, then they are building spiritual qualities of self control. It also demonstrates a certain amount of charity in that moderate spending does not provoke the jealousy of others like extravagant spending does. (Yes, it is an act of charity to avoid provoking jealousy.)

What wealth really is is a surplus beyond the need to live and adequately maintain and build one’s stewardship of talents and employment. Thus, even if the surplus that we have is very very small, we are still wealthy.
This life is a test. We have the opportunity to make choices about what we will do with our surplus.

How do I avoid judging others by the size of their wallets? How do I avoid envy? By remembering my own faults and limitations as a steward. I know that if I was in control of Bill Gates’ billions that I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea of how to manage his business or what to give to. I used to fool myself into thinking that if I were rich I would give it all away, but I know myself well enough now to know that I would want to hang onto it just like anyone else. And my ignorance on how to manage it wisely would mean that I would not be able to take care of his stewardship very well. It is better for me to work on my own stewardship. That said, I think everyone has their strengths and weaknesses in their stewardships. Some may be extra good at investing, but may be terrible at spending wisely. Some may be good at spending wisely, but may be terrible at letting go of goods that they accumulate once their use is no longer needed. Some may be good at giving and taking care of their property, but may be terrible at planning ahead financially. I may know what someone needs to learn in their stewardship, but how can I be irritated at them for not knowing yet? The honest in heart who are searching for what spirituality they still lack will be led to what they need to know in due time. Those who are not honest in heart will not, but how can I tell who is honest in heart and who is not? That’s not really important for me to know. It’s better for me to hope for people.

Sorry for the long comment.
jendoop
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:13 am

Michelle, you’re brave to take on such a loaded topic, it ranks right up there with politics

I grew up poor, both from my Dad being in and out of employment but also because of poor money management. It hurt my tender child feelings to go without glasses when my dad had new cowboy boots. That’s the way I remember it, but it hurts even now to think that it could really have been that way.

In contrast my husband grew up with enough and to spare, living overseas and traveling, going to boarding school. Our attitudes with money now are very different. I feel great if we have $10 left over at the end of the month, he wants at least a $500 cushion (yes we also have 401K, HSAs, college savings for the kids, etc). He feels our house is sub-par, I’m grateful for every little nook and cranny that we can call our own. I’m happy to be able to buy food when we need it without checking the bank balance first, he wishes we could go on a trip to Cancun every year. He is very hard on himself that he isn’t more ‘successful’ in his career, I think he is just awesome and I’m thankful to be a stay at home mom.

In the end I appreciate having my needs provided for. In the modern US society what “needs” mean is increasingly extravagant. We see needs as a house, a car, refrigerator, TV, DVD player, a full closet of clothes,…

This kind of conversation about wealth seems somewhat trite on a global and eternal scale when people can’t die of wealth, but people die every day of poverty. No disrespect to those who die of drug overdoses, but those are deaths of agency/choice, not of wealth.(meaning that not every wealthy person dies from drugs but every person who does not have food will die of that)
jendoop
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:17 am

After that last bit of my comment I have to confess that I’m taking an Anthropolgy class right now, cut me some slack, OK?
mmiles
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:29 am

Melissa,
Beautiful post! I don’t really have anything useful to add, but you really said it all, and I really like Jusine’s comment.
Michelle L.
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:32 am

your last comment was very appropriate jendoop. And that’s part of what makes the wealth/poverty issue so loaded. My concern is that as Mormons we tend to judge those with wealth very harshly. As if you can only be good if you are poor.

And it’s cracking me up Melissa, that you are getting called Michelle on this thread. Michelle/Melissa tend to be interchangeable names in most people’s minds. So can I get credit for some of your other beautiful writing as well?
jendoop
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:39 am

I did it too, sorry! All these M names get me confused, it would be much easier if there was just one Melissa and Michelle, but there is a cornucopia!
Laura
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:52 am

Loved this post. My husband had the same “issue” growing up, he always hesitated before inviting someone to his home. The fact that his family obviosuly had money was embarassing to him.
Now as an adult, no matter our income, he prefers we live a VERY basic life. It’s important to him that people never view us as “rich” His favorite thing to tell the kids (and me) is “it’s good to want”
I do think people are quick to judge those who are wealthy…as if they don’t have a care in the world.
GREAT POST!!!!
Catania
September 9th, 2009 @ 11:16 am

What lessons have you learned about money, particularly in the past year?
In the last year, I have learned a lot about money. I’ve been blessed to have the opportunity to live in an extremely wealthy ward. I’ve been in “rich” wards before, but this one is beyond compare. People live in homes that are in the millions. I live in a small apartment with my family.
What’s amazing – this is the least “keep up with the jones’s” ward I’ve ever been in. The people are kind, generous, and firmly planted in the gospel.
I’ve learned that, for the most part, people have to work very hard for their money. And, it can be a great blessing. We have a few mission presidents in our ward. There is a member of the seventy in our ward. I have no doubt that they are able to serve because of their financial security. I’m pretty sure that the tithing of these members are more than what my family makes in a year – imagine what that does for the Church! We have beautiful, ornate temples all over the world. We have men and women who are willing to use their own finances to serve. We have a comprehensive humanitarian organization. I know that this comes from members who have been given much, and have, therefore, given.

Has money been an issue in your marriage?
My husband and I are pretty much in tune when it comes to “money issues.” This hasn’t always been the case. We do have different backgrounds, but have learned to come together by sitting down, weekly, and having Parental Council. We discuss the needs of our family. Each week we discuss our budget. We open and close with a prayer. Most of all, we allow the atonement to work in our marriage – by being loving, forgiving, and repentant – when necessary.

What do you teach your children about money?
This is actually something I’m still trying to figure out. We have taught them to work hard. We try to mitigate “entitlement” by making bigger deals out of time spent together rather than ‘stuff.’ For example, at Christmas, I try to make a bigger emphasis on traditions like making/delivering cookies or other traditions rather than presents. My children are still young (8, 7, and six months), so I know we’ll be facing more challenges soon. I also try to make sure that I don’t display an entitled attitude myself.

How can we reconcile temporal wealth with spiritual well-being? Of course, we are all quick to quote the scripture where Christ tells that it is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. But what about the parable of the wise steward? And what about the parable of the talents? Remember – talents were money in Christ’s time. They weren’t all blessed equally, and there wasn’t a “bottom line” amount of money they needed to acquire. The main thing: the lord expected that they would each work hard – to acquire more. They were expected to be wise stewards. As latter-day saints, we covenant to consecrate all that we have to the building of the kingdom of Zion. Where would our church be today without the generous sacrifices given by both the rich and the poor?

- I also think of Lehi – who was rich, but had no issue whatsoever to leave all of his wealth and travel to a promised land that he had never seen. I’m not sure I can imagine such a difficult trial.

- In the Garden of Eden, Adam was told that the earth was cursed for his sake – and by the sweat of his brow he would eat bread. Whether or not we are rich, life is going to be tough. Even if there is a lot of “bread”, we’re still all gonna eat it only by the sweat of our brows.

- The Lord wants each of us to succeed, but His perspective is Eternal. He has mansions for us – and they are in Heaven. He blesses us now accordingly. Recall what Alma taught the poor Zoramites: “I say unto you, it is well that ye are cast out of your synagogues, that ye may be humble, and that ye may learn awisdom; for it is necessary that ye should learn wisdom; for it is because that ye are cast out, that ye are despised of your brethren because of your exceeding bpoverty, that ye are brought to a lowliness of heart; for ye are necessarily brought to be humble.
13 And now, because ye are compelled to be humble blessed are ye; for a man sometimes, if he is compelled to be humble, seeketh arepentance; and now surely, whosoever repenteth shall find mercy; and he that findeth mercy and bendureth to the end the same shall be saved.” Because of their poverty, they were compelled to be humble. Their humility led them to receiving the gospel – and opening them for an eternity of blessings from God.

How can we avoid judging others by the size of their wallets? By having charity. There are some people who are wealthy that are not good. They do love money more than God. It may not seem fair, but it is important that life doesn’t end here on earth, and after this life, they will not enjoy peace that Christ gives. I can’t think of a worse thing – it is NOT worth the wealth.

There are some people who are rich that are faithful. And to them, we should probably be grateful. They are probably the people that the Lord is priming so that His work can be done on earth – as Mission Presidents, General Authorities, etc.

Anyways – sorry about the long comment. The post was quite provocative, and the comments have all been great. Thanks!
rk
September 9th, 2009 @ 11:25 am

Sometimes I think that money management and homemaking skills matter more than income. Of course that isn’t always the case. A pet peeve of mine is to listen to someone complain about their financial problems and see them go out and subscribe to cable TV and an I-Phone, buy a new car and eat out frequently. My sympathy toward them is quite limited. We are very blessed, but we have discovered that going without such extra things is a blessing.

I’m glad I’m not a bishop so I don’t have to counsel with such individuals. I would not be popular.
April
September 9th, 2009 @ 11:43 am

I’ve never been wealthy so I have never felt worried about people judging me for my wealth. As I see it though, those who are wealthy never have to worry about food, clothing, shelter and good health care when they are sick. Which if you ask me are all the things I desire in life. I understand you may have felt it a burden to have that security. I think people understand that hard times come along for all. Having money gives you options though. I don’t think people assume your life will be swell with money. You just never have to make a choice between a root canal and food in the pantry. When I was first married we lived with the people I nannied for, so I was pregnant going through morning sickness, working 60 hours a week, getting use to being married, while my husband went to school and worked full time. Everyone kept telling me how lucky I was. I don’t think the person was saying you didn’t have worries, I think they were saying it could be alot worse! So like many others I will add my “I wish I was blessed with the trial of wealth” to the list. I think if you look back over your married life and any struggles you’ve had and add to them worry about food, clothing, shelter and good healthcare you will see that people just want the security of these four things! Not your big house fancy cars or luxury vacations.
Mindy
September 9th, 2009 @ 11:48 am

The topic of wealth is such a sticky subject. Growing up LDS, you hear people bemoaning the dangers of wealth, and at the same time talking about how righteousness brings prosperity. Both can be true, but are by no means absolutes. I guess that’s why I get fidgety when my FIL starts complaining that the family business won’t be successful when my BIL and his wife aren’t attending church or paying tithing. If prosperity (by this definition, wealth) is the direct result of righteousness, how come just a handful of people of varying degrees of righteousness actually enjoy great wealth? I know some people who are rich and miserable. I know some insanely wealthy people that do the most amazing things for others with their money.

I guess when we talk of righteousness and prosperity we need to clarify what prosperity really means. I think it has more to do with happiness and unity than how much money you have in the bank, although that certainly can help.
Melissa M.
September 9th, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

First of all, I have to say, don’t worry if you call me Michelle. I’ve been called Michelle my whole life; in fact if I had a nickel for every time I’ve been called Michelle…..

Anyway, I think it’s interesting that we sometimes condemn the wealthy and equate being poor with being good, as Michelle L. pointed out, but we also sometimes assume that someone is wealthy because they are being blessed for being righteous. I’ve seen righteous and not-so-righteous people (and yes, I’m making judgments here) at all economic levels, so it seems silly to equate goodness with someone’s level of prosperity. But we continue to make those assumptions, and I suppose it is human nature. Mindy, I appreciated what you said along these lines.

I also want to add that I can appreciate what you are saying, April. Also that my life hasn’t been as charmed or carefree, financially, as you might imagine. The nature of my husband’s business makes our income unpredictable, and there is a big difference between owning assets (whose value fluctuates) and having an actual cash income. We actually have had months on end when we’ve worried about the basics—making a house payment, paying health insurance premiums, etc. It sounds silly, but I have had long stretches of feeling poor, even though I’ve been perceived as being wealthy. Hence, the need for counseling. I agree with you, though, that in comparison to many others—in fact, to most of the rest of the world—I haven’t had much to complain about.

I’m enjoying all of your comments—you’ve given me much food for thought.
Carol
September 9th, 2009 @ 1:04 pm

When I grew up, our family was very poor. My father had been a wealthy businessman, but after a terrible car accident in which he nearly died, he lost everything. (I share a bit of our life in an Ensign article, “The Tithing Overcoat.” My parents experienced peace and happiness even though we had very little. That was a priceless gift.

Today, my husband and I enjoy abundance. We have a thriving business and live comfortably. Although we were poor, struggling college students when we first married and during our early years we had no extra money for discretionary spending, we survived and thrived spiritually. Today, I still look for bargains, buy at second-hand and discount stores, and love to share with others who are in great need. Money can be coveted by poor and rich alike. As we feel gratitude for all that God has given us–whether we have only a little or a lot–we can find peace amid sorrow and live abundantly on very little.
Angie
September 9th, 2009 @ 1:07 pm

I have only read the original post, not the comments, but here’s my take:

Of course having money doesn’t mean you have no problems. You will of course have the normal trials of life. But you won’t have the trial of worrying about the electricity turning off in addition to your other trials. You won’t worry about losing your house or how to get to work when you can’t afford to fix your broken car. Having money (this is theoretical, since we have been living on a teacher’s salary for eight years) means that you have so many more resources for getting you through the problems you do have. There is no stress like the stress of not being able to afford the bare necessities for your children.

And the scriptures are very clear about the display of wealth. Having money is of course not a sin, but it seems that it is difficult to indulge in materialism (my definition: having more car, house, etc. than we absolutely need) without paying a spiritual price.

I think of it this way – how can it be possibly be Christlike, loving, or fair to have so much, when some don’t even have clean water to drink?

Now let the attacks begin?
mmiles
September 9th, 2009 @ 1:46 pm

Angie,
I think the problem is that who gets to decide what displaying too much is? It’s all relative, isn’t it? Someone in a third world country might think I’m really selfish for paying for air conditioning when they don’t have clean water. I feel bad they don’t have clean water, but I admit it, I’m not turning off my AC because I don’t think it’s going to help them have clean water. (and if it did, would I? I don’t know,I hope I’d do the right thing–whether it be cooling my children or financing new pipelines:P)
The other thing is, economics is complicated. People with money tend to be able to make more money. If someone with big bucks is wining and dining business contacts and spending lots of cash in extravagance to do it, and turns around and makes a big profit, is that ok if they are then able to donate more to charity in the end? Sometimes extravagant lifestyles contribute to higher earning power in a very circular way. That power has potential to do more for the poor. Look at celebrities. They live big, which helps them bring the big bucks, without which they couldn’t donate as much.
Carin
September 9th, 2009 @ 1:59 pm

My husband and I fall somewhere in the middle in the financial spectrum, and I thought your perspective was so interesting. I wouldn’t have thought of those challenges. I appreciate you sharing. I really like the reminder…that we are not defined by what is in our bank accounts.
Anonymous
September 9th, 2009 @ 2:25 pm

My husband grew up very wealthy. His parents are still wealthy–private jet, several vacation homes, etc. In many ways I think his pampered life–I like to call it “trust fund welfare”–has hurt him much more than it’s helped him. He has frittered away years of his life trying to figure out who he is. His parents have always bailed us out financially whenever he’s quit a job because it’s “not very fun”. Learning to work hard and stick with things isn’t something he’s mastered yet. Except for his mission, he really hasn’t had much experience with this because he hasn’t needed to.

Don’t get me wrong, being poor and having to worry about bills, and car payments and all that stuff is an awful burden. (I had nothing but debt when my husband married me, and I grew up pretty poor). But having money can pose its own set of problems.

Also, I would like to add that money and class are not the same thing. My in-laws have tons of money but have the tackiest worst taste ever! They have amassed this gigantic “art” collection composed of rare Thomas Kincaids and that guy that paints dolphins in Hawaii. Yuck!
Shelah
September 9th, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

This is an interesting post, Melissa. This year we made the jump from being glorified students to my DH having his first “real” job as a cardiologist. Three months into his job, we’re not any happier or unhappier than we were last year at this point, not immune from trials (as my sore back can attest from lugging around my son and his cast), and in some ways having more money makes me a lot more preoccupied by things I didn’t have the resources to care about before (like decorating this big house we got). The main short-term advantage has been that when something breaks (like a washing machine or our ghetto minivan) we can get it fixed without stressing out about it, which is a huge relief. That part is really nice, but we haven’t been living with it long enough to see many of the problems. Honestly, I was really scared for his fellowship to end and to make the jump from doctor-in-training to real doctor. So far, so good. But really having more money hasn’t changed things all that much.
Kathryn P.
September 9th, 2009 @ 2:52 pm

Angie, when I think about the references to displays of wealth in the Book of Mormon, I usually visualize rich people who have serious pride issues. They think they’re superior to everyone else and they ignore or persecute the poor. It is possible to have money without having serious pride issues that destroy entire civilizations.

However, I also understand your concerns because a friend told me of a wealthy ward in Utah Valley. A woman got up in testimony meeting and actually said, “Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a Zion society? There are no poor among us….” The last time I went to a Parade of Homes in Utah Valley, I was literally shocked at the 12,000 square foot homes I walked through. I couldn’t imagine how they could keep track of their toddlers or teenagers in that size of home. I tried to not be judgmental and practice empathy by visualizing why anyone needed a home that large, but I failed. It does seem like some of the economic hardships in the United States right now were fueled by greed and the obsession with the display of wealth (even if it was accomplished with smoke, mirrors, credit cards, and subprime loans).
mmiles
September 9th, 2009 @ 2:57 pm

Kathryn, FWIW worth, I think the Utah Parade of Homes is pretty indicative of a weirdly materialistic culture. Wherever I’ve lived around the US, I’ve never, ever encountered such a strange phenomenon as in Utah the whole Parade of Homes thing. The Utah home buying culture is a unique thing all in its own sphere.
Kathryn P.
September 9th, 2009 @ 3:50 pm

mmiles – My sister took me to a similar institution in Oregon called “Street of Dreams”, so I don’t think it is solely a Utah phenomenon. My sister and I love architecture and interior design, so it was a fun way to get decorating ideas and to enjoy a celebration of creativity in architecture and design. I used to visit the Parade of Homes in Utah every couple years because it was a fun mother/daughter activity and my daughter also has the love and talent of interior decorating in her genes. The first time I saw Melissa M’s home was a decade before I moved into her ward. It was featured in the Parade of Homes, which allows custom builders and designers to show of their talents to potential customers.
Faith.Not.Fear
September 9th, 2009 @ 3:58 pm

Perhaps the most important thing about money (lots or little) is learning to use it wisely, and consecrate it to the Lord’s service.

That said, a few years ago I struggled with inviting the poorer members of our former ward to our way too big house — they had 11+ members of their family living in a small, government subsidized apartment. I was embarassed to bring them where I knew they’d never live.
Sadly, extremely selfish of me.

Now, we live in a neighborhood surrounded by the appearance of wealth, feeling very out of place financially, but grateful for the good hearts and great friends that fill the homes in our ward (no matter the size), and love us no matter what size our wallet!

Thinking back on the idea of consecration, I love the mentality Dolly Levi had in “Hello Dolly,” and hope it can be my mantra when times of excess bless our family:

“Money, pardon the expression, is like manure. It’s not worth a thing unless it’s spread about, encouraging young things to grow.”
Kylie
September 9th, 2009 @ 4:15 pm

Ah, Melissa. Do you want to go to lunch some time? If you could pass along your counselor’s advice, I’d appreciate it. I really hate the “own assets/don’t have any income” scenario. It puts me over the edge.

FWIW, I’ve run the opposite road from you: grew up fairly wealthy and then got married to a wonderful, not wealthy boy, who put himself through college working construction. (And got an English/Philosophy degree. My own little philosopher-roofer). I’ve been called a “trust brat” and worse by people who’ve never met me, and I shop and price match at Walmart. My parents are the most frugal people I know, but they also own lots of big toys. It’s been a crazy, mixed-up money life for me.
mmiles
September 9th, 2009 @ 4:23 pm

Kathryn P,
Well see? There I go judging people and the Parade of Homes.
Allison
September 9th, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

#32 (Angie) – So how do you define “need”? Because IMHO, more than two outfits per person (one to wear & one to wash, OR, one for weekdays & one for Sundays) and 400 square feet of living space per family of four is probably all that anyone really “needs.”
Melissa M.
September 9th, 2009 @ 5:05 pm

Yes, it gets sticky when you start to talk about how much a person/family “needs.” I’m guessing it’s variable and highly subjective, but I think one can sense when it’s gone way beyond needs.

Also, don’t worry about the Parade of Homes thing, mmiles. I actually hated being in the Parade of Homes and found the whole thing to be embarrassing.

Kylie, I’m guessing we have a lot of common. Also, is it serendipity that your husband did the roof on our house?
m&m
September 9th, 2009 @ 6:49 pm

Great post, Melissa.

I think what I’ve learned about money is that there are NO easy answers. Just as with anything else, the answers are personal. And each of our journeys will look a little different.

I think envy is an easy trap to get into, but is poisonous. It’s just too easy to think that someone else’s life would be preferable to our own, and I think that is simply wrong, and in a real sense denies the atonement. The atonement isn’t there to make our lives like someone else’s, but to help us carry our own burdens. (This is a note to self: I have to remember this when envying those with health. It’s so easy to think that I’d be so much a better person if I didn’t have to worry about whether I will have the strength to do my basic stuff each day. But in truth, I think I’m a better person for the struggle, and the less I wish my life were different, the more of God’s power I find in embracing my life as it is.)

I think it’s also worth noting that in the law of consecration, needs AND wants are considered. So, what are needs? What are wants that are righteous? Is truly righteous living only about food and shelter, the ‘basics’?

I also look at the balanced way the Church uses its resources, and it isn’t just on the basic survival needs. There is balance in how the Church functions, and I think that is a good model to consider (in other words, not every spare penny is spent on helping the poor — sometimes money goes to the arts or education or maintenance or beautifying or improvement of an investment, or….)

I really don’t know what that balance all looks like for myself, let alone for anyone else, but I think it’s all more about the *process* of seeking God’s guidance and spiritual change than it is about an end result or some pat formula. Zion is ultimately about pure and humble hearts, not solely about equal bank accounts.

Lastly, I will say that one of my greatest fears in this world is having a lot of money. In the end I don’t see it as a luxury, but a huge responsibility, and I tremble at the thought of having such a burden. All the more so knowing how judgmental we all can be.

I appreciate your honesty about this, Melissa. Much to think about.
jendoop
September 9th, 2009 @ 7:32 pm

m&m I like your comment about the law of consecration being based on needs and wants. Then when I think about my wants, how would I feel if I presented those wants to God?

FWIW, my wants have changed since we moved into a branch that encompasses the inner-city. It is very hard for me to think about buying a $200 purse when I know that those I attend church with don’t spend that much on groceries in a whole month. Sometimes finances are relative, and a bit of keeping up with the Joneses. I wish every ward/branch were a little more economically diverse so everyone could have perspective from the least to the greatest.
anon this time
September 9th, 2009 @ 7:58 pm

I am neither rich nor poor. I spent my childhood thinking I was poor, but looking back, I see I was doing just fine compared to millions. Married, we’ve spent some years being frugal college students and are now gainfully employed but don’t own a boat or go on trips to Disneyland.

The biggest problem I have encountered with those who “have” is when wealthy relatives provide expensive activities for their children or plan get-togethers that require extensive travel for my family. I don’t know any parent who likes to tell their kids “I know your cousins all have (fill in the blank Wii, DS, a pony–okay so nobody I know has a pony, but you know what I mean) but you can’t have that.” I have a nephew who got twenty bucks from the tooth fairy. Tell me how I explain that one to my Sacajawea-coin-getting-kiddos! I have a sibling who has no financial problem with buying an airline ticket and hotel accomodations for a vacation. Fine, right? Go enjoy yourselves. But it crosses the line when they expect me and my family of six to join them. I feel pressured into stretching our budget so I’m not shunning my family members.

Money is lame.
Paula
September 9th, 2009 @ 8:45 pm

Bless your heart, Allison. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Reading this post written by someone who is well-off brought out the green-with-envy in my eyes. But how could I possibly think that I’m poor when I have a husband with a job, a 1,800 sq.ft. home, two vehicles, cable TV, a cell phone, kids who play soccer and take music lessons, and we just bought a freezer (finally!) for our food storage? Rich indeed.
wendy
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:24 pm

Great post Melissa!

I grew up somewhat poor, but Mom was good at budgeting and I don’t think us kids felt it very often (I can think of a few times). I’m not sure when I started judging the wealthy, but my Social Work education didn’t help. It was after I married that I began to lighten up on that critical envy (well, and own that it was envy based). I’ve come a long way since then and don’t find myself feeling critical or envious very often. Not that I don’t want more income . . . !

Interesting, I heard a report several years ago that after $50,000/year, more income does not increase happiness . . . that making less than $50K was stressful because so many basic needs could not comfortably be met. I wonder what that figure would be today.

What have I learned this past year about money? Nothing earth shattering, but here are my lessons:

~If one is on a limited budget, taking shortcuts with groceries can only go so far (ie., food storage needs to be replenished).

~Shopping at a cheap store that randomly has good produce is not worth it. I’d much rather pay $1.50 for apples that are sure to be good, than .25 for apples that may or may not rot within the week.

~Gardening is wonderful for the grocery budget.

~Cutting way back on eating out for lunch decreases husband’s waistline (oh, and I’m so glad I saved his smaller jeans from 7 years ago).

~Having a savings to fall back on really is a blessing, financially and emotionally.

~Careful planning and conscientious spending (and not spending) can make even a few dollars stretch quite a bit.
Camille
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

Anon this time, you really need to set boundaries with your extended family. If your family members shun you because of your circumstances, that is their issue not yours. Unless your boundaries are set, you can’t expect your family to change their expectations of you.
Some of the worlds greatest gifts have come from those who have been financially blessed. My favorite stories though are those who have nothing (to worldly standards) but will give everything they have to those around them.
Michelle.my.belle
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:52 pm

A lovely post indeed! Very thought-provoking and well-written. Thanks!
Melissa M.
September 9th, 2009 @ 9:57 pm

Jendoop, yes, it’s healthy to have some perspective. When I first returned from my mission in Peru, just driving on paved roads and taking a bath, walking on carpets and shopping at a grocery store seemed extremely luxurious. My children need that kind of reality check.

Interesting thoughts about the law of consecration, m&m. I also think that it won’t all be based on just needs. I like the church’s well-rounded approach.

anon this time: $20 from the tooth fairy? Seriously?

Wendy, I enjoyed your list of lessons you’ve learned. The one that resonated the most with me was what you said about your husband being slimmer by not going out to lunch. My husband has been surprised this year at how much easier it’s been to keep the extra pounds off, just by taking a sack lunch to work every day.
Katie
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:26 pm

Recently I observed to my husband that true happiness is having just enough money. As in you have enough to pay all your bills and that if the car breaks down, or you get seriously sick, it isn’t a real big deal. Anything beyond that and it really can become a burden. Just enough money can make you happy, but I also have seen how having too much money can really cause a lot of hardship.

Right now we’re in between. My husband got a great job with a big name technology company a few months ago. But, before that we were very broke students. The real challenge for us at the moment is learning to not spend the money we have, and instead use it to pay off all the debt we accumulated during our time of want as fast as possible.

Still, it is better to not have to worry about paying things like medical bills, family trips (where nobody seems to understand how expensive it is not to have paid time off, and expects you to participate in everything), car problems, all of which have been huge burdens in the past.
m&m
September 9th, 2009 @ 10:42 pm

When I first returned from my mission in Peru, just driving on paved roads and taking a bath, walking on carpets and shopping at a grocery store seemed extremely luxurious.

One of the moments I will never forget is the day after getting home and putting my feet on carpet. Talk about a feeling of guilt, pleasure, luxury,…so many emotions wrapped into one.
Jill Shelley
September 9th, 2009 @ 11:35 pm

You have inspired a great discussion here. I think we all judge a person’s income by what kind of house they live in. This can be so misleading. I know some who live in huge beautiful homes who have minus zero in the bank. I know others who live in very humble homes who have huge savings put away. Houses can be such an illusion.
Sara
September 10th, 2009 @ 8:32 am

We are definitely not wealthy and are considered middle or lower middle class. However, we have always been comfortable and more than once I have noted to my husband that while money may not “buy happiness” it sure does mean a lot less stress in your life.
Liz C
September 10th, 2009 @ 9:37 am

My husband and I tend to have different opinions on money, as I’m an optimist, and he’s… not. His challenges stem from a desire to provide MORE to his family, and I see that extra money as a barrier to him spending time with his family, and I know we’d rather have him than have stuff. Convincing him he’s worth far more than his paycheck has been tough.

I remember, about ten years ago, having a discussion with a friend who has a really gorgeous waterfront house. They had saved and planned, built the house, she decorated it–it was gorgeous, and comfortable, and wonderful. DH admired it greatly, and felt very dissatisfied with our “meager” home.

Chatting with my friend in her kitchen, her focus was on our family–she’d always wanted more than two, but in her “upscale” social circle, it just Wasn’t Done. So she was very excited to see us expanding our family.

And, she was very envious of me staying home to raise those children… she had to maintain a full-time job just to pay the property taxes on that gorgeous house. She said she’d committed to living there while her two were in school (for the district), but that she looked forward to getting OUT.

Talking later with my husband, he hadn’t realized what burdens their supposedly-desirable lifestyle placed on their family. He still loved their house, but the burdens that came with it were far less attractive.

(I, too, would have a hard time not being stern with people who cry poor, and spend a lot of money on frivolous things. I’ve a friend who cries poor a LOT, but takes her kids for professional photos at each birthday, puts all of them in paid sports, goes on vacations and out to movies instead of funding the home projects she gripes about… sort of a penny-foolish, pound-foolish approach that gets very tiring to hear about.)

About four years ago, we decided to downsize our living quarters, and focus on paying off debt. We did it, too–paid off about $15K in three years. So when we paid off the last of it this January, I was really excited about watching our savings account grow FAST… and now I have to retrain my husband that just because there is “extra” money doesn’t mean we get to throw our good money habits to the wind.
CatherineWO
September 10th, 2009 @ 10:37 am

I read this post last night and have been puzzling over it and the comments ever since. Some of you seem to be going to great lengths to apologize for your big homes. No one has forced you to buy that big home. If you are uncomfortable, change houses. Alexandra Stoddard (my favorite home decorating guru) said, “Comfort is the ultimate luxury.” If your home is comfortable for you, then stop apologizing for it. If it is uncomfortable, change it. Only you can be the judge.
Sue
September 10th, 2009 @ 11:15 am

In my experience, the biggest problem with having money is finding a way to help your children grow up without feelings of entitlement. I do think that goal can be accomplished, but it takes a lot of self control on the part of parents who must be extra careful to teach their children the value of work and allow them to “earn” their own way in life.

I’ve always lived in wards with members whose financial states varied widely. Personally, I was never judgmental of those who lived in relative “mansions” because they were so willing to share their bounty with the rest of us. Can’t even begin to tell you how many ward parties/activities I’ve been to in some of these beautiful homes! (And more than a few wedding receptions, too…)
melissa
September 10th, 2009 @ 12:44 pm

I feel very fortunate with regard to our money situation. My husband is a student, but I have a degree and my full-time job is building our savings, to be used in the near future when I’m able to become pregnant and stay at home with the baby(ies). Neither of us is a spender, but we spend some extra money on things we like, like going to plays–money we could potentially be paying down our car loan or something with, but I feel like it’s money well spent. We don’t have much–a basement apartment, one reliable car and one that’s going to die any minute–but it’s so enough right now. I hope I can remember to keep my level of satisfaction this low when we have more options. thanks for the interesting post.
ErinAnn
September 10th, 2009 @ 1:07 pm

Where we live, we are considered upper middle class. According to some in my family, though, we are firmly in the “upper” class based on income. My husband does make a lot of money; more than both of our parents EVER have. (And his parents are both working now that their nest is empty.) We make probably three times what my sister’s family brings in, and she has been the most vocal about her, um…feelings on the matter. I never tell anyone now when my husband gets a raise, and I try to avoid talking about any money issues. It’s crazy. We’ve been very frugal and are slooooooowly remodeling our ugly condo into a very nice one. I would trade for my sister’s little house with a yard, though.

I’ve learned to ignore jealousy (mostly by avoiding it) and to be very, very charitable. We doubled our fast offerings again this year. Our stake has been struggling to stay afloat in terms of FO, and I know that every penny we contribute is helping people that I know and love.

It was interesting being on the other side of things growing up and ending up on the “wealthy” side as an adult. One of my friends was a rich snob, although the rest of her family never struck me as snobby. My cousins grew up abroad, with a LOT of money. You would never know it for all of the grace, warmth and charm they exhibit…except my aunt and uncle’s new house is HUGE. They’re still my “ideal family”.

I would write more, but I’m out of time. Terrific post.
bekah
September 10th, 2009 @ 1:17 pm

I agree with Sue–I grew up in a ward with people of all income levels, and the spirit of unity in that ward was largely due to a general willingness to share whatever one had, be it much or little. As some of the other comments have pointed out, after returning from my mission in Brazil, I found things like carpet, washing machines, and indoor plumbing to be great luxuries. How quickly we grow accustomed to such things and begin to take them for granted!

My husband and I were just discussing the issue of entitlement the other day. We realized that none of our children are old enough to really remember when we were poor students, and that they sometimes don’t grasp monetary concepts very well. We try to make them aware of how much they have and help them realize that we will not buy them whatever they want just because we may happen to have the money to do so. We’re just not sure how to make those ideas sink in (of course, the oldest is only 9, so it may just take time). We would love to take our kids on a family service vacation when they are a little older so that they can gain some first-hand experience of how blessed they really are.

I think that one of the best ways I have found to reconcile temporal wealth and spritiual well-being is to remember that all we have comes from God. We are not entitled to it, we do not deserve it more than someone else, we are neither better nor worse than someone else because of what we have or do not have. God blesses all His children; “he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good” (3 Nephi 12:45). Some are blessed with temporal wealth, some are blessed with great talents in art or music or writing, some are blessed with great patience or faith or kindness. It is ultimately what we do with our blessings that matters. Do I gladly share my blessings with those around me? Thanks, Melissa, for reminding me to ask myself that question. And for doing it so beautifully.
Melissa M.
September 10th, 2009 @ 1:54 pm

I’m still enjoying the comments and different perspectives. Liz C, I especially enjoyed your story about your friend with the waterfront house. Something I’ve come to learn over the years is that our things can own us instead of the other way around. Cliche, but true. And I think it’s great that you focused on paying off debt and are now building up your savings account. Kudos to you and others like Melissa and her husband, who are planning wisely for the future.

Katie, I like what you said: happiness is having just enough money.

And Sue, you are right. One of the biggest challenges of having money is raising children who don’t feel entitled. That has been my biggest worry, and it’s a battle I continually fight.

I want to thank all of you who have commented for being gentle with me—it was scary for me to write this post and put myself out there; I was steeling myself for some harsh comments, but you’ve all been very reasonable and well-behaved, and I can’t thank you enough.
Melissa M.
September 10th, 2009 @ 2:00 pm

And Bekah, I didn’t see your comment before I posted my comment above, but thank you for reminding us about the source of all of our blessings, whatever those blessings may be. I truly believe that feelings of entitlement stem from forgetting that everything we have comes from God. You said it so well.
Jennie
September 10th, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

My house is pretty big but was a big downsize, financially, from our last house (it’s big but it’s finished really cheaply). We made the decision to live way outside of town so we could get more house for the money. We live in a boring subdivision where every fifth or sixth house is the same floor plan as ours. I feel like I can justify the size of our house because we have six kids and my husband was working from home when we moved in. Most of the other people who have this same floor plan have one or two kids. Why does a family of four need a house that’s more than 4000 square feet? Maybe people could ask the same of us, though.

I’m one of those pathetic people who wishes for more, though. I wish I could rip out all the crappy, cheap stuff in my house and put in nicer things. I’ve had to be patient and frugal, though. I’ve learned how to change light fixtures and faucets, and I’ve scored some phenomenal deals on ebay. So slowly but surely my house is getting nicer. I’m pretty proud of all the hard work I’ve done.
Liz C
September 10th, 2009 @ 5:42 pm

Jennie, I don’t see anything wrong with you wanting to “upgrade” your own home as time and money permit! That’s a part of making the most of what we’re blessed with, and you’re doing it “line upon line”, as it were. That’s very different from demanding and diving into debt because you want all the ultra-accessories right this second.

We’re in a rented home, and we’re making small upgrades (with owner permission) that make the space more pleasant for our family. That’s meant some small expenditures on paint and plaster, and a lot of family work time. Our kids get to participate with us, and learn that *anywhere* can be home. We’ve moved a lot in our marriage, and this spring even spent six weeks in a hotel room together, after our last home had a fire. Living, working, and schooling in 400 square feet with six people was an adventure; spreading out into 1100 square feet in our new home was a delight. But even the hotel was “home” very quickly. It’s the people, not the stuff.

When we determined to pay off debt, we made a lot of effort to include the kids in the family finances, and to keep it positive. Sure, we were committing about 1/4 of the family income to paying things off, but that was because *we had enough*–we were not poor. We were making very frugal living choices. We enjoyed our smaller rented home, and got creative with storage so we could live comfortably. We made a game of finding economical things to do together. We decorated. We “gardened” on our front stoop.

We talked a lot about the joy of fulfilling personal obligations, of following counsel to get out of debt, of the freedom living debt-free gives us.

We’ve never had a great fat lot of money, but it’s still possible to live with an attitude of abundance. I know people who do have a great fat lot of money, and live in constant poverty of heart, and in fear. I also know people who are very financially set, and who live with tremendous abundance in their hearts. It isn’t the money, but the soul, that matters.
Stephen M (Ethesis)
September 10th, 2009 @ 5:49 pm

My wife’s sister was in sales and ended up with two accounts that generated a hundred thousand dollars net a month with minimal work in the late 1970s. It became devastatingly hard for her to interact with her neighbors or at church. She hasn’t been active for more than twenty years, the same for her ex-husband.

On the other hand, my wife and I live below our means. I’d live lower if I could get away with it. Living below your means, I think, is a key to happiness. Though, in general, the studies show that people are happier as they make more money up to a household income of $60,000.00 a year, then the happiness flattens out.

Melissa this was a good post to start people thinking.

Sunny I had a client whose child wanted to be emancipated. I obviously had a conflict of interest, so I sent the kid to a friend of mine, who was one of a group of trust fund babies. He was enthusiastic, thought the kid was doing the right thing to cut free of the wealth and influence of his parents and to make his own way. Interestingly enough, the kid after full disclosure and understanding just what he was getting into, decided to straighten out and fly right and stay part of the family.

But I’ve known people who suddenly became wealthy who also suddenly had a very difficult time staying motivated if they lacked the ego drive to make more money. It can become difficult to be more than a lotus eater.

As if you can only be good if you are poor. made me think of The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis, which addresses that issue.

I think the problem is that who gets to decide what displaying too much is? One man’s economy car that gets him disrespected at the dealership is another man’s dream (thinking of a friend who bought the wrong Mercedes when he switched from BMWs …). One person’s car that is the bare minimum to avoid telegraphing failure in his professional career is another persons extravagance.

That can be very interesting to watch.

And when is it ok to not make more money? I had a chance to switch jobs. They would have paid me more than twice as much. But in my current job I get to be home on the week-ends and see my family at night and in the morning. Was it wrong not to change jobs? I mean, I could have been doing a lot more for other people than I am now. But I love seeing my family and spending time with them.

This year we made the jump from being glorified students to my DH having his first “real” job as a cardiologist I know that down at “Big Baylor [Hospital] when the ortho residents start making money rather than salary they suddenly jump from $90k to about two or three million dollars a year (that comes up in their depositions when they have to explain the hourly charges they are charging for testifying to show that the payments are not creating a bias). Talking with some of them, especially when they move to venues that don’t pay as much, but offer better lives, the money change does not seem to make much of a difference in how happy they are.

the whole Parade of Homes thing which they have in Dallas and Wichita Falls, and many other places … can be really interesting.

Different, for certain.

anon this time bless your heart.

the issue of entitlement and of choosing things to tell your kids no about.

I would suggest to everyone that they pick up a copy of Understanding Poverty (at the library or through inter-library loan — it only needs one reading) by Ruby K. Payne. It will really help you understand the American class system better than anything else.
rk
September 10th, 2009 @ 7:58 pm

A lot of people have talked about challenges of raising children with wealth. I’ll give my 2 cents. It is good for children of poor and wealthy parents to hear the phrase, “We can’t afford it,” to quote Elder Hales.

Most people have mortgages and other loans so that is probably true.
FoxyJ
September 11th, 2009 @ 8:42 am

I think ‘we can’t afford it’ is a good start for everyone. But when I was growing up, that was the only money talk my parents offered. We could never afford anything (or so it seemed). So when I grew up and had my own money I started buying all kinds of things because I could.

For myself and my children I try and emphasize the idea of priorities. Obviously there are certain things that have to take priority each month, like rent and food, but after that we really do have a lot of choice about how to spend our money. My kids are still young, but I try to help them see that if we spend money on one thing, we won’t have it for another. We choose not to eat McDonalds every day because we would rather spend our money on other things. One example for me is contact lenses. I stopped wearing them about five years ago when money was tight and we had to cut a bunch of stuff out of our budget. For a while I was sorry for myself that I couldn’t afford them, but after a while I’ve realized that they aren’t a priority for me anymore. I choose to spend my money on other things. For me, at least, I find it more positive to look at my budgeting as a manner of setting priorities and making choices rather than restricting myself.
Melissa M.
September 11th, 2009 @ 8:57 am

Stephen, thanks for those thoughts. I’ll have to check out that book. Interesting that the interns you talked about weren’t any happier overall when their salaries increased substantially. Several of you have mentioned the study that concluded that after about $50,000, happiness levels plateau. Seems to be true.

rk—I don’t think it hurts to say “We can’t afford it”—kids need to know that there is a budget. I like what FoxyJ said, as well, though, about emphasizing priorities and helping kids understand that we make choices about what to spend our money on—I think that’s empowering.

Good thoughts!
Liz C
September 11th, 2009 @ 10:22 am

We work really hard to afford the important things, though we impress upon the children that to afford some things, we need to be patient and save up, find ways to economize in other areas, etc–in other words, we don’t just make it happen by magic, we work together as a family, and they see the whole decision-making process that goes into the family budget planning.

It’s a different mindset, one that says, YES, we can plan for that, rather than NO, we’re broke, we’ll never have that. Being told “We need to plan for that”, and then watching and helping it happen, is a far better lesson than categorical denial of all gratification.

I do encourage my kids to think outside the box to gratify their wishes, too. Creative thinking and patience are the two BIG money tools my parents taught me.
rk
September 11th, 2009 @ 11:11 am

FoxyJ #69

I agree with you. As children are old enough to understand we need to teach them a hierarchy of spending priorities. Sometimes all children need to understand is “We can’t afford it.”

I have a friend who grew up genuinely deprived of many necessities. As a result she tries to give her children everything she didn’t have and consequently doesn’t set any personal limits on what she is willing to spend for her kids. For example, a cat got very sick and her children didn’t want it to die. So she paid over $1200 in vet bills for the cat. She justified it by saying that the kids were too young to understand money and she didn’t want losing the cat to break her children’s belief in prayer.

I don’t think anyone here believes in denying children some wants, but it is healthy for all children to not get everything they want.
Sharlee
September 11th, 2009 @ 12:44 pm

“For example, a cat got very sick and her children didn’t want it to die. So she paid over $1200 in vet bills for the cat. She justified it by saying that the kids were too young to understand money and she didn’t want losing the cat to break her children’s belief in prayer.”

Whoa! There’s an even more problematic issue at play here than spending $1200 on vet fees. (“. . . she didn’t want losing the cat to break her children’s belief in prayer”!!??) But that’s a post for another day. Faith through Manipulation?
Melissa M.
September 11th, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

Maybe it would have been cheaper to buy a new cat and pass it off as the old cat.

You’re right, Sharlee, the most troublesome issue here is a parent teaching her children in this example that all of our prayers are answered in the way that we want them to be answered. Definitely a potential post topic.
rk
September 11th, 2009 @ 4:39 pm

Melissa and Sharlee,

I also found it disturbing that my friend would unwittingly teach that all desperate prayers will be answered. I thought this was a missed opportunity to teach her children that not all prayers are answered in the way we wish. Sooner or later those children will find that out. It would be easier to learn that lesson when the stakes are low. That would make an interesting post.
Chris Jones
September 11th, 2009 @ 5:15 pm

I’m blown away by the honesty here; so many people willing to tell the unvarnished truth about their attitudes and prejudices is very humbling for me to read.

I’ve never been rich, but we live in a good house that still requires our three teenage sons to share a bedroom (we have eight children). We have missed mortgage payments. We have eaten from the Bishop’s Storehouse. We have also donated tens of thousands of dollars to charity over the last couple of years. How those things can coexist is hard to explain, so I won’t try. I really have only one comment that is anything different than what I’ve read here. I am afraid that I can’t say it in a way that will be inoffensive, but I think it so important that I’m willing to risk it.

The only peacegiver is Christ. Money does not bring peace. If you feel peace that comes from your wallet, you have a disease and you’ll need to get over it. The surgery required for that cure is often extremely invasive and the rehab is excruciating. I speak of this from long experience, and others can do so far more persuasively than I can.

Having spent hours on my knees explaining to God that I needed more money, and finally realizing that what I wanted was not money but PEACE, I eventually was able to ask God in all sincerity not to remove the financial trials we faced until we had reached the point where we had His peace in our hearts no matter what was in our wallets. Doing this without the ability to pay for power or heat or food was very educational. But we did – both of us, my wife and myself – reach the point where we were not just enduring but positively excited about every day whether we could pay the bills or not. We did the right things and looked to God for the rest.

He healed our hearts, then He also gave us a couple of bucks, which I appreciated, but didn’t have to have. Had we lost everything in this world, we would still have cheerfully faced every dawn. None of it mattered.

I truly believe that unless we are willing to have not where to lay our heads, as Christ did not, and still not only trust but rejoice in the Lord, we’re in trouble. Deep, real, nasty, chronic, potentially fatal trouble. It’s hard to see, but that makes it all the more critical to realize.
Handsfullmom
September 11th, 2009 @ 8:10 pm

I think one of the main problems many have with wealth has been touched on briefly here: The issue of entitlement, particularly in raising children. I see this as a problem with all classes of people, though. My husband has worked with minority youth for quite some time and says that one of the saddest things he sees is that the enormous, valuable work ethic of immigrant families is many times not being passed onto their children. The parents work so hard to provide a better life for their children, but they do not teach those children how to work. They want to make life easy for their kids, but end up depriving them of the very values that would make them happy.

I see the same thing happening in some wealthy families. The parents or grandparents work very hard to achieve success and wealth, then pass it down to their children expecting them to feel blessed by it without understanding how it came to pass. There’s a small town I know of where a smart, talented entrepreneur made millions of dollars in his business and then gave $9 million dollars to each of his children, each in their thirties. The way they’ve chosen to deal with that wealth has not been pretty — they’ve built houses way out of proportion to the humble farmhouses in the rest of the town and squabbled over petty things. Each child receives a salary from the family business (six figures) and there have been problems because the child who has a masters degree feels entitled to make more than his brothers and sisters who have just bachelor’s degrees. Another family waited until very last to build their house because they wanted to make sure theirs was the biggest house.

It just seems like the wealth that blesses the first generation most often curses the subsequent.

Issues like these are why my husband and I have strong feelings about what we want to teach our own children. We ask them to pay for half of their college and mission, and we hope they will enjoy the starving student years just like we did. =)
m&m
September 11th, 2009 @ 11:44 pm

Chris Jones (#76), thank you.
Uncle Wayne
September 15th, 2009 @ 3:43 am

This year after 16 years, we finally paid off the house. I owe it all to a frugal, shy, beautiful wife (who just happens to be the blogger’s aunt). We are very nearly totally debt free. One of our daughters will leave on a mission soon. We are glad to be at the point that it won’t realy be a financial burden. I would have loved to sent my son on a mission9 years ago, but he was called to preach to the spirits in prison instead.

While a struggling married student couple with children, my siblings would tell me to give up the pursuit of a college degree. They would show off their new cars and take fantastic vactions. They were doing great without degrees, so why should I bother? Now they are struggling to make ends meet and I am comfortable (somewhat). My siblings tell me I’m “lucky”. Luck is a factor, but so is hard work. They have nothing saved for old age and are plotting how they can get our grandmother’s money. She tells me that I am the only one concerned about her welfare, the only one who cares enough to call.

It’s all in how we use our blessings. Do we use it to build the kingdom (as the blogger does) or to feather our nest?
Melissa M.
September 15th, 2009 @ 8:32 am

Wayne, I remember the basement apartment you and Nancy lived in when you were first married—remember the bugs under the carpet in your bathroom? You guys struggled for years while you were going to school. Your success now definitely isn’t due to luck! And kudos to you for paying off your house so soon. You two were always an example to me of sacrifice and wise financial planning.
Blog Segullah : Spiritual Resiliency
September 22nd, 2009 @ 8:50 am

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