I can’t even count how many lectures I heard on the value of living in the “mission field” before I moved away from Utah. They were often relayed in the same tone of voice that one might announce a homemaking meeting or potluck dinner, that sing-songy Mormon lilt that’s well intentioned if somewhat insincere. “I just loved living in California (or Virignia or Michigan or Oregon). Ya know, the members were SOOO friendly and they really stuck tugether (emphasis on the tu).”
I’ve lived in three different wards since then, in two different states, in two different countries. And I often surprisingly find myself missing the particular brand of Mormonism practiced in Utah.
I miss my neighbor, religious and devoted wife, convert, mother to three children who left the church, mother to one husband who eventually joined, college graduate in her 40s, politician until retirement, Relief Society teacher, laurel adviser, cancer survivor, camp director, friend.
I miss my family who never held Family Home Evening, or daily scripture study, or family prayer.
I miss the members of my “newly wed, nearly dead” ward who invited my husband and I to dinner despite age differences, income levels, number of children, common interests.
I miss having only one calling.
I miss the woman who would swear from the pulpit; the mission president who was still mistakenly ashamed because he returned early from his mission due to his wife’s health; I miss the zealots, the historians, the depressed, the poor, the rich, the published, the prudish, the hypocritical, the sincere.
I miss the diversity of examples that I had to tell me what a woman is, what a Mormon woman CAN be. I miss being able to be advised by a lawyer, a nurse, a businesswoman, a teacher, and many a stay at home mom. I miss the parenting advice I received from a mother of 6, a mother of 4, a mother of 3, and a mother yet to be . They were faithful and active and very, very different from one another. And this list of stellar woman were all in my ward. I only had to cross the street to find a different ward with a different list of women with as much variety of experience and wisdom.
When people used to ask where I was from, I would say “The West.” When they ask where I’m from now, I say, “America.” It’s often been too hard to explain my origin, even and especially to other Mormons. I’ve never wanted to be a “Utah Mormon.” But, I am one. And I’m finally realizing that I’m very, very lucky to be in such good company.
What stereotype of Utah Mormons do you have? Has it been proven true or false?
Moving from California to live in Utah for 2 years was a huge culture shock…more so then when I moved from California to Georgia! I do have some family in Utah and I love them but, there was things that just were weird to me! I think Utah is a great place and there are things I miss (like Temple Square) but, I don’t miss the fact that I felt the church was just a culture there and people just took it for granted. It was the thing to be in with…yet I found a lot of my neighbors were not living church standards. There were big clicks too and I never really fit in. It was a little scary to know who you could really trust and who was just playing the part. There are a lot of really good people in Utah and I learned a lot living there but, it would be hard for me to go back. Many people think it would great to raise kids there but, I think it is harder for your kids to have to determine who their friends should be. When I was in High School my cousin and I compared Year Books one Summer. Every other girl in her High School was pregnant or yes even married! She was from a very small town in Utah but, wow did my Mom and I sit in shock! At least in other places it is easy to pick out the good kids from the not so good ones. It forces the LDS kids to have to build strong testimonies. Things that are great about living out of Utah is having the missionaries around and having to drive to church instead of walk! (I found a lot of people would walk home for Sunday school and not come back! Or, my kids would escape the building and go home!) Again, don’t get me wrong…I heart Utah Mormons too but, I know why the Prophet always closes General Conference saying please drive safely and curtious as you leave today! I’ve been to general conference and been about run over and honked at for crossing in the cross walk with the right away! LOL The Prophet says that statement for all those Utah Mormons who don’t know how to drive! LOL
The stereotypes I’ve often read/heard don’t describe anyone in my Provo ward (we lived there for 5 years). It described the ward I was raised in –in southern Idaho. The “culture is more important then the religion” type attitude people claim all “Utah Mormons” have –it’s laughable, really, since they don’t even seem to know what they are talking about. But even more than the culture mentality, I think, is just that I came from a small town. Small towns produce certain types of behavior. It’s more prone to gossip, to conformity, to tradition. Transform that town into 85% LDS, and the “Utah Mormon” legends are born.
Now I live in California, and I really miss my Provo ward. There’s nothing wrong with the ward here, but there’s something to be said having an entire ward be a 4-block radius. I loved being able to walk to church, to the homes of the sisters I visit taught, to meetings, to events…Here? I have to drive 10 minutes or more to see anyone. I also miss being so close to Salt Lake City, BYU, Temples, and all things “churchy”. I really miss it sometimes –the access and the immersion of it. I really do.
Cheryl I really appreciated your comment. I grew up in a Provo ward, just a block from BYU and can honestly say that the “Mormon Utah Culture” was never apparent in my life. I honestly didn’t get the Jell-o jokes or other stereotypical comments because they were foreign to me.
My ward was full of Mormon scholars who not only created amazing Sunday School teachers but wrote the curriculum. I have a hard time imagining anything better.
It is nice to be in the Utah Mormon fold with you my dear Mara!
I echo Courtney and Cheryl. While I didn’t grow up in Utah I live here now and I appreciate it so much more. There is something to be said for convenience and accessibility.
I firmly believe that your “LDS experience” is exactly what you make it, Utah Mormon or not.
If I hear people say the phrase Utah Mormon it makes me want to throttle them; it’s usually pejorative and patronizing.
My experience with “Utah Mormons” is the same as Maralise has outlined. I never had a jell-o salad, my mom never made a casserole, and we never had a Crockpot. The problems that some identify with Mormonism in Utah are the same problems you see everywhere and anywhere else, it’s just that it’s easy to tag it with a specific culture and reference as an excuse. It particularly galls me when people are upset with what they see as hypocrisy in Utah. Hello, people are people, they are natural men no matter their geographic presence.
I’m proud to be from Utah, I make no excuses. I grew up with vibrant, intelligent members who would give you the shirt off their backs. Were there the occasional zealots? Sure. Show me someplace where they don’t exist. If anything, growing up LDS in Utah makes you develop personal testimony–you can’t just say “I don’t do that, I’m LDS,” because guess what? The kid handing you the beer is the Bishop’s son.
And don’t get me started on the phrase “Happy Valley”…
I moved here for college and married a cute boy from Provo, and so have been here now for 20 years. It was actually much easier to live here in Provo after I graduated from BYU and got away from all my friends who complained about Provo all the time. When I left campus culture, I discovered a vibrant, educated, and wonderfully service-oriented city that had largely been hidden from my view before.
We’re still here, with nary a jello salad to be found. My kids are having to learn that living the gospel means you’re going to be teased — even by other mormons. I grew up in the midwest, but wonder if being here might not have been harder for me. Just like Azucar mentioned, I don’t think I would have dealt well with pressure from the kids in my ward or other people who “knew.”
If we moved (and who knows, we might), I would miss the “I’m-in-the-middle-of-all-my-neighbor’s-lives”, because I feel a lot of support from that. I know that when my kid falls down the stairs and the ambulance is pulling up to my house, running down the street after the ambulance will be a whole horde of relief society sisters carrying food and hugs.
We certainly had a lot of wonderful neighbors in Michigan, but we were all largely formal neighbors, not intertwined in the fabric of each others lives. There is something to be said for living in such a manner.
Having said that, I do remember how close we were to the two other families in our branch in Michigan. We did everything together. We spent holidays together, we spent every Sunday evening together. We children all played together, and Sunday church meetings were filled with six adults (three couples) trying to hold about 50 callings, and us 10 children running around trying fervently to thwart them.
I think we can all probably be happy anywhere — if we’ll just let ourselves be.
As far as Utah Mormons go, my experiences have been unfortunatly stereotypical. I think there are pros and cons of living anywhere with a large LDS population. I live in Mesa and I have a love/hate relationship with being surrounded by so many church members. I love my ward, but there are definite clique issues. I love my neighborhood, 7 of the 9 families in my cul-de-sac are LDS, on the other hand, sometimes I feel like I am under surveillance. I am grateful for all of the good examples around me and for being near so many others with my same beliefs, though often it seems that the gospel is taken for granted around here. All in all I wouldn’t trade it to live in “the mission field”, so it must not be THAT bad.
Azucar and Justine-
I tried explaining that to my husband –how I couldn’t possibly of had it “easier” since I had to stand for something in the face of the Laurel secretary getting pregnant. Half of the priests drinking on a Sat. night and blessing the Sacrament on Sunday morning. It was rough watching my friends fall on every side (drugs and sex were the most frequent temptations) and imploring them to stop. It was hard. But I think my testimony is stronger for it –and I don’t take “I’m LDS!” at face-value anymore.
However, that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the struggles my husband went through, or the struggles my kids are going through. There is something to be said for standing for something, regardless of the temptation or who is doing the tempting, eh?
I was born in the East and raised in Provo.
I started tearing up as I read this blog. It is beautifully expressed and so perfectly descriptive. And the comments are equally apropos.
In past years I have waded through negative emotions about what I have called the homogenous Utah County Mormonism and have come ’round to a simple and essential truth: we are all doing our best (in whatever circumstance or locale we may be) to live true, to be true to the Doctrine of Christ.
No matter where I travel, when I am in the company of other Latter-day Saints, I feel that I am home; I feel that whatever differences or similarities or neurosis exist among us and between us, on some level - perhaps on the deepest level - we are of one heart. That is all that has come to matter to me. The rest is dross. It will eventually just blow away.
I think what one thinks of Utah depends on when one encounters it. If one is born there and lives there then it is home, and as we all know, there’s no place like home. Most of the people I’ve known who have moved to Utah while still in high school have not liked it because they felt like outsiders and couldn’t wait to get away. Others, like myself, who moved to Utah after high school usually found it to be more hospitable.
People who move there because they think it will be a good place to raise children often say it is harder. They say this because the people who are a bad influence are LDS. In the diaspora all those people are around as well, but either they are not LDS or they are not known to be. So generally speaking there is more of a feeling of community between kids in their wards. Not always of course, but generally.
Personally I have always liked Utah. My family moved there when I was in college. Then I left to find work, married and stayed in the same place.
On my last visit to Utah I spent time in the Salt Lake Valley. It was disappointing to see the way things have changed. It is getting to be just like every other mid to large sized city. What I like about it is disappearing. If all I can get there is what is available anywhere else, why not go somewhere else.
There are things I miss about living in Utah, and number one (and 2, 3 4 5 . . .) on the list are wonderful friends and family members. I did know some great Utah Mormons. On the whole, though, I MUCH prefer being in the “mission field.” I like the closeness of the wards I’ve lived in outside of Utah, I like the sincerity of people either come because they believe in it or don’t–there aren’t any cultural pressures to conform, and I like sharing the freshness of ward members experiencing the gospel on its own terms, rather than than through a cultural lens. I can’t remember if we ate jell-o at our ward functions in Utah. That just doesn’t matter to me, but there was certainly a distinctive culture in the state as a whole that was different than what I’ve experienced with Mormons further afield.
One thing I like about living out of Utah is that in your ward you are really needed. Needed in a serious way. If not for you, it probably wouldn’t get done. In Utah wards, of course there are loads of competent people, loads of strong testimonies. Here, if you have a strong testimony and serve reliably, you are just so loved and appreciated.
Also in my kids school, yes it stinks to be the only members, but it is also fun to be the community’s lone specimen of a Mormon family. Where I live it is very evangelical, and its fun seeing them come to respect and trust us. I love these people. Would I trade them for a neighborhood full of Utah Mormons? Yeah, probably, except that I know this is the right place for us right now.
Also, I think when kids raised in non-LDS areas finally do get to Utah, such as for college, they are very appreciative of all the blessings found there. Of course there are always those who hate the place, but many times I have seen people arrive in Utah with a sacred sense of awe for the Mormon-ness of it all. Its a treat to be there if you’ve “earned it” growing up the only LDS in your school.
Maybe I am just jealous, but one of the most “aurrgh!” things about “Utah Mormons” for me is the (what seems to be) ‘taking for granted’ attitude about most things church related that are SO convenient for folks in Utah.
I just erased a huge laundry list of personal examples. Let me just say:
Dear Utah Mormons,
You live in a place where things are afforded you in ways you may never understand. It is offensive to those of us from the mission field when we visit to hear you complain about a wait at the Dist. Center, or in a DI (WHAT’S THAT? Here they are NOTHING like yours), or that you have too few “standard” conforming choices for clothing. Stop fussing about the cost of church related ‘things’. We have to drive, some places hours, to pick through a few selected items. They do not sell CTR rings, books, or Christus Statues at our Walmarts.
Remember that where much is given much is expected. Smile. Be polite. Say hello when we visit.
I think that people are people, regardless of where you live.
The most cliquish ward I ever lived in was also in southern Idaho. The town was not predominantly LDS, but it was a situation where most of the people had lived there all their lives. Even the young families consisted of people who had grown up there and come back. People had connections that went back so far, and it was really difficult to break into that. However, I was also childless and infertile at the time, and I’m sure that those circumstances fed into my feelings of alienation.
I grew up in extreme southern Arizona, again in an area that was NOT predominantly LDS, and I honestly don’t think that my experience with members here in Utah is that much different than my experience with members in Arizona.
I have a neighbor who moved here a few years ago from another part of the country, and she has really sruggled. She and her husband are constantly comparing this area with the place that they came from, standing up in testimony meeting to express all their frustration and complain about Utah, etc. I have to say, that type of thing really turns people off. I think she just had an unrealistic expectations of what it would be like here–maybe had it built up too much in her mind. I don’t know just what she was expecting. But anyway, she is unable to see that some of the challenges she’s experienced fitting in here stem from her own actions and attitudes. She had lived 15+ years in the ward she came from, and I think she just forgot that you usually don’t become best friends with people the instnnt you move to a new place–it takes time.
I do think that she has a valid observation on one point. I think that in Utah, many people have their extended families close by, and that is where they focus. I do think it probable that in other areas, wards could develop a closeness that might not be experienced in Utah because people far from their loved ones would need to band together with people having common beliefs. I do think my neighbor is right that with regards to holidays, Sunday dinners, trading babysitting and other things, people here tend to think first of their extended families, and it is easy to forget that someone coming from afar may not have those built-in connections.
However, I do think there are wards in Utah that do cultivate that closeness somehow. My mother recently moved from southern Arizona, and she has been quite amazed at how much her ward members have gathered around her, welcomed her, and served her.
As far as “taking things for granted”, such as LDS bookstores, travel time, and things like that, I guess my response is “how could you not?” I think most of us take things for granted in different areas of life. I’m not sure that’s a character flaw as much as it just a by-product of human nature. I used to think the same thing about people complaining about their kids during all the long years I was trying to become a mother. Now that I am a mother, I take a lot for granted too–some of the very same things I used to complain about with other people.
I enjoy my trips to Utah; the people are friendly, and it’s amazing to see how well staffed the temples are. It’s great to go to LDS bookstores, etc.
But I think a lot of this essay seems to be about home-yearning, and not unique to Utah per se. Many of the paragraphs could apply to the ward in which my children were raised, which is also a newlyweds-and-nearly-deads ward in a college town far from Utah.
And I didn’t enjoy living in Utah during the three years I was at BYU. I was a new convert, but there was no Gospel Essentials class. Nobody told me about nursery, so I brought my child with me to Sunday School for years. Nobody told me that General Conference was broadcast on radio and TV, so I would have missed that entirely except that a clerk in the store had it playing in the background and explained what it was. I didn’t have a calling, and wasn’t asked to speak in sacrament meeting, because there were so many more qualified people. They would sing Primary songs in Relief Society, and I would sit there like a lug because I didn’t know the words.
Also, it was quite painful that my in-laws were so disappointed that my husband was marrying “outside the church.” I was totally temple worthy, it was merely a matter of my family background.
I never felt really comfortable until we moved out to an area where most members are converts. But I’m not sure that it was so much overt judgment (of which there was some) but rather just not speaking the language and knowing the rules of the game.
My husband and I moved to Salt Lake City after we got married because we were inspired that we needed to go there for work. Our total stay in Utah was 10 months before we moved back to CA on a job transfer. There are good and bad that I remember of my stay in Utah. I loved being so close to the temple and all things “churchy” when we lived there. I experienced my first live session in the temple there, which was such a neat experience. We had a difficult time with our ward though. We were newly married and the church building was right behind the parking lot where we lived. When I had visiting teachers come over their comment was “Oh couples move in and out of those apartments all the time and never stay very long.” So it made it difficult to be welcomed by the ward when they didn’t expect you to stay. I recall when my in laws came out to visit and I was giving a talk that Sunday. My father in law who is a Muslim even came to church, which was a big deal, to hear me speak. The bishop passed us in the hallway without so much as a hello or stoping to greet us. That bothered us especially since my husband’s non member Dad was with us. I remember that we were in need of assistance and asked for food assistance. The Relief Society Pres came over and filled out the form, but first looked through my cupboards, and then told me “One dozen eggs should be sufficent don’t you think?” when I asked for 2 dozen eggs. I was 20 and completely humiliated, but it was a learning experience for me. It was a great experience for my husband and I to rely on each other and deepen our relationship. Would we ever move back? Only if we were inspired that we needed to go there. But I do know that not all wards were like the one we went to back then. When I would visit my cousin, her ward was always nice and welcoming.
I think any time you have a high concentration of any kind of religious or ethnic group you are bound to encounter a few influences on the culture, but I’m with Azúcar, I don’t appreciate it when people smear “Utah Mormons” into one big homogenous lump, especially when it’s done so with disdain.
While I grew up “in the mission field,” I have lived in Utah ever since I was 18 and on more than one occasion I’ve had to defend my choice to remain here. What’s that about? I’ve also found that Utah can also be a ” mission field” and yes, there is diversity here, too.
You can find a little bit of everything–good, bad; warm, cold; active, inactive; welcoming, judgmental, loving, self-righteous–wherever you go. I’ve seen it everywhere. And sometimes I’ve observed people find what they’re looking for regardless of what else is there.
I’ve lived in two home wards here in Provo. In the first, after living there three weeks I had to bake bread and go introduce myself to our neighbors–and I was 9-months pregnant. In my current ward they had us in the ward directory before we’d even moved in. I found people to love and serve and who loved and served me in both wards.
Are there things that annoy me here? Yes. I don’t love it when people assume everyone they encounter is a member and toss about our church vocabulary as if everyone understood. I try not to do that, but I understand why when you’re used to it being that way it’s easy to fall into that.
But there are so many any other things I love about living here. I’ve been here long enough now it might be easy to take them for granted, but I do try not to.
Great post!
Thank you for your responses, I’d love to address everyone’s response individually but I find that I might have to summarize my thoughts in order to keep this short enough that someone might actually read it.
Whenever I hear the word stereotype, I always wonder where that particular belief began, in what truth did the eventual misunderstanding or simplification stem from. Your responses have allowed me to understand how others view Utah Mormons in more depth than I have before. Thanks for your candor.
The Utah Mormon is a particularly unique stereotype that obviously falls down when we look at individual Utah Mormons. And I guess that’s my attempt with this essay.
It hurts me when I hear Utah disparaged because of how much gets simplified in the process; how much of the “truth” of it gets shortcutted. As with any stereotype, opinions are formed from half truths and impressions, subjective at best, prejudiced at worst.
As a Utah Mormon, I never felt anything particularly begrudging about members that lived elsewhere. I wonder what, in turn, makes it different in reverse. What do you think?
I remember for my parents, they thought that in Utah it must just be soo much easier to live the gospel, because of the relative homogeneity. In our tiny branch, you were either super duper active, or we never ever ever saw you. There really wasn’t any middle ground. I consequently grew up with the impression that since indeed this was the true church, once you committed to it, you were committed 150%.
And as a child, I had no idea that there were indeed inactive members in our branch because they were completely absent.
Growing up with that feeling, I assumed that since so many people were LDS here, it would foster the same feelings and level of activity in the church. I know my parents did as well. I think my parents believed that they were making sacrifices that Utah Mormons were not asked to make because of the greater physical and geographical barriers to church activity. I wonder if that feeling is what too often brings feelings of disdain.
They have since retired out here and have certainly seen the error of their thinking!
Maybe that’s one reason Justine–the perception that the member living outside of Utah makes more sacrifices for the gospel (travel time, lack of resources, more callings, etc…). Let’s say that is the case (whether it’s always true or not), that Mormons that live outside of Utah make more sacrifices for the gospel, why is that important? I think we all strive to be ok with whatever is asked of us, and sometimes it’s hard when others seem to have less asked of them. However, whose problem is that really? In my opinion, it’s no one’s “problem.” It reminds me of the parable where the laborers get paid for their labor, whether long or short.
You’re absolutely right. I know my parents were really schooled when they moved here and realized that the gospel is a sacrifice everywhere. And if we could all just accept each other for where we are in life, and then just move on with our own, a whole lot of problems would go away.
But too often, I think we (and I certainly include myself in this) tend to become easily resentful, proud, willful, distemperate, and un-charitable because we focus on our own set of ills more than others.
It is largely human nature, and part of what I think we’re sent here to overcome (and I think we’d all recognize it as such). But we all want to justify our own life choices and circumstances by vilifying the choices and circumstances of others. And for that, it doesn’t matter where you live.
We’ve just all never really gotten over our childhood complaint that everything has to be “fair”.
I live in a ward in Provo where most of us have two to three callings. It is common for our Bishop to plead with us to understand how much we are needed.
Did I mention that I live in Provo?
I loved growing up in Provo. My ward was wonderfully eclectic, and I had amazing Young Women leaders. The main difficulty I experienced (and some might perceive as stereotypical), was that once I reached age 18, most of the women in the ward began to ask me, with great regularity and increasing frequency, when I was going to get married. I’m sure this happens to freshly graduated Laurels in wards all over the world, but my single state didn’t receive nearly as much concern and emphasis in the wards I attended once I moved from Utah at age 25. I’m sure that much of the disparity was due to the fact that the women in my Provo ward had know me for most of my life, so it was natural (and touching) that they’d want to see me happily married, and be curious about any developments in that area. What was hard for me was that they seemed convinced I must be heartbroken not to have found true love by age 25 (and 26, and 27). Every time I returned to visit family in Provo and attended the ward, I would be asked if I had found Mr. Right, and would receive many gentle hand pats and pitying looks. No one really asked about my life in New York, or how my Master’s program was going, and I admit that it all made me feel diminished somehow. Whereas in Manhattan and California, I would hear “You’re so young! You shouldn’t even think about getting married for another 5 years!†It got to the point where I would sort of dread going to my home ward when I was visiting my parents.
All that said, when I did find Mr. Right (at age 28), the joy expressed by my beloved Provo ward sisters was very moving to me. And my husband (a native Californian who had unfortunately been fed some anti-Utah-Mormon sentiment growing up), absolutely loves my Provo ward, as do I.
I didn’t live in Utah until coming to BYU for college. In fact, I moved 12 times by the time I graduated from high school. My experiences in different wards were varied, as you would expect. I miss the sisters who shouted “Amen, sista!”, the hearty and intelligent breed of New Englanders I came to love, the genuine sincerity and hospitality of Texans…(I could go on…)
I have been in Utah county since my husband & I graduated. He (also not from Utah) tried to find work elsewhere, without giving it another thought, as though it was natural. He didn’t find work in his industry anywhere but here. And so we’ve been here for over eleven years.
Our experiences in different Utah county wards and neighborhoods have all been remarkably different, some homogenous, some eclectic.
While I couldn’t make Jello salad to save my life, I love that we live close to (many) temples, I love that I can take a few minutes from my Saturday and buy CTR rings for my primary class just minutes from my home. I love that I have many examples of strong, articulate and intelligent women who truly live the gospel no matter where they live.
After I read Emmie’s comment I thought about how important it is for us to be the new generation of Utah Mormons. Or Mormons Wherever.
If I do have the opportunity to live in Utah for the rest of my life (and some times I think that is my fate, which is why I feel so strongly about this subject) I want to make experiences like Emmie’s a thing of the past. Something we can all have a good laugh about because of the ridiculousness. Like the time a lady asked me if I would wear white at my next wedding following my divorce. “You know, only virgins wear white.”
We can do it. We can make Utah as open-minded and safe as anywhere else. Let’s all hold hands.
The stereotype that I most dislike is when people say, “When you live in Utah you don’t know what it is like to really SERVE.” HA. I just got called to be primary president, and trust me I have served way more in the few months that i have been in this calling than in all of the wards that I have lived in in several states and 2 foreign countries. There might be a lot of people to help with the workload, but there are generally a lot more people who need service (i.e. our primary in our last “non-Utah” ward had 19 kids in it; our primary here has 120).
I also don’t like it when people think all Utah Mormons wear frumpy jumpers and have big hair. I live in an upper-middle class neighborhood (meaning mostly middle with some fairly wealthy families mixed in), and trust me, the ladies in this ward are all very fashionable and look great everyday of the week, not just on Sundays.
Hey, you guys can knock (or not) Utah Mormons all you want, but leave the Jello salad alone!
I am a California *Mormon*.
I grew up visiting ALL my Aunts, Uncles, and cousins in Utah. All of my relatives from the 1800’s forward were LDS and in Utah.
I thought it was the most wonderful thing that they got to walk around the block to church. I thought it was the most wonderful thing that *church music* was on the radio. I actually got the strongest spiritual mentoring from my *Mormon* relatives in Utah.
I was doing quite well with the *Utah Mormon* aspect UNTIL attending a Sunday School class in my Aunts ward and some dumb ass made a dumb ass comment about *Calif. Mormons*.(very condescending)
Good gosh if we can’t be unified worldwide we can’t be called *Saints*. “seek and ye shall find”
There is the good and the bad in all places and in all things and in all peoples.
Oh, and the license plate that said…
“don’t Californicate Utah” made me want to puke.
I love this whole conversation. I loved c jane’s comment about creating a whole new type of Utah Mormon: open-minded, accepting, and safe.
I think what has struck me most about this conversation is that both people who live inside and outside of Utah are basically sharing how their experience as a Mormon MATTERS. Whether I prefer to live in a Provo ward or a Dallas ward, I can find a wide range of personalities, talents, and needs. Whether I end up being a YW leader to two girls or fifteen, I still can make a difference with my willingness to serve.
I’m just so glad that no matter where I live (and I’ve lived both in and out of Utah), I know I’ll find the gospel.
Having said that (now I’m being hypocritical!), I taught high school in Utah, and I have to say, Utah kids are fabulous kids. They can say no to pressures and temptations just as well from a fellow Mormon as to a non-Mormon. Is it tough to live the gospel as a teenager in Utah? Sure. But it was tough to live the gospel as a teenager in Las Vegas, too. Our experiences are sometimes different, but the testimony that allows us to draw meaning and growth from the experiences is still the same.
I love this post, and what Maralise said about wanting to debunk stereotypes.
I am one who also hates the whole ‘Utah Mormons and everyone else’ division. When I moved east after grad school, I got the ‘you fit in pretty well here, for a Utah Mormon.’ Uh, thanks?
I have lived on both coasts and in the midwest and out of the country, and I agree with those who say you can find all types anywhere. The gospel is true anywhere. There are cultural and social blessings and challenges anywhere.
I liked the recent Ensign article about moving to a new ward, and things one can do to become a part of it.
I keep reading about all the people who are in Utah and think “why not have a Segullah readers/writers get-together?” Anyone? Anyone?
I wanted to clarify that I didn’t want to devalue the experiences of those that have felt somehow alienated by their deceptively friendly Utah Ward. I think it’s important for the Utah Mormon to be aware of the feelings of others towards them because somehow/ somewhere, we fit that stereotype.
Just like the loud Americans that I see on the bus everyday that imitate or seem like they fit the “ugly American” stereotype here in Austria. I don’t think denying that Utah culture is off putting to some is necessarily helpful to this discussion. However, in my opinion, being aware of our image and being sensitive to that is helpful in trying to avoid a harmful situation and therefore letting others understand instead of take offense.
I have another question. In the non-Utah wards that I have lived, I have sensed that there are many who simply get over-used. They begin to function in survival mode because they are the bishop and their wife is the Young Women’s President, etc…. I think there is a point where the “need” of the ward is too much for individuals to take. How have you non-Utahns dealt with this type of need, year after year, decade after decade? Do you find it harmful or helpful that the need is so great in many wards?
I would LOVE to live in Utah. I would LOVE to be noted as a ‘Utah Mormon’. I would never have a greater compliment. Utah is the only ‘roots’ bearing place that I have. And besides having a great grandfather pioneer into the valley, and my living there a short two year stint in Ogden, the ‘roots’ aren’t much. But I would give up anything to live there.
I’m a Utah Mormon studying for a Master’s in Germany. Surprisingly, when working with the missionaries, we find it hard to be taken seriously when people hear that we’re from Utah. They expect all Mormons to be from there and somehow discredit it. Despite that, I love both sides of the story. Utah is great for many things besides the close contact of lots of Mormons. One thing I love about being in a limited-Mormon area is that I have to know at all times why I believe something and I have to stand up for it. I don’t have to first ask if someone is a Mormon before I try to tell them about the Gospel. I realize that we can always share our testimony with anyone, even fellow Mormons, but yeah . . . Advice and help has come to me no matter where I’ve been. I just love having the Gopsel. Random musings, sorry.
A topic close to my heart. I used to live in Utah, and have moved to AZ. We were WAY more “needed” in Utah. Double callings for many people, praying constantly for new stable families to move in, etc. And I HATED, and still hate, the way “Utah Mormon” was thrown around as a derogatory comment. It was almost like the last socially acceptable prejudice. Don’t mark any other group with one single stroke of a brush, but we all know Utah Mormons are all alike.
Now in AZ it’s a huge ward, so many wonderful people willing to serve, it’s almost like “so this is what people are talking about.” I have never lived in a ward this big or this functional, not in CA, UT, WY, or DC. And the majority of that time was in Utah. And everybody is *shocked* to hear it! Here they are in a great ward, and they think Utah wards are more “Zion-Y” or something. I think that can be dangerous, if they build up this huge whole thing, and then go to Utah and find normal people with normal struggles in tiny wards.
I think it’s important for the Utah Mormon to be aware of the feelings of others towards them because somehow/ somewhere, we fit that stereotype.
I think this awareness is important, but any problems that exist will usually go both ways. If people come to Utah or deal with ‘Utah Mormons’ with stereotypes in their minds, they might be viewing people through those lenses, rather than with an eye and heart open to how things really are. This is one reason why I don’t like stereotypes.
But of course, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t always strive to be sensitive to others. But that applies to all of us, no? I have just seen this go both ways too many times. We are ALL responsible for being of one heart and one mind with no -ites among us.
I think you have to have never been a “Utah Mormon” to get it. The personal experiences I’ve had took place from Maryland to Texas and yet were eerily similar. A family from Utah would move in. First, there would be the testimony about their gratitude about being in the “mission field.” Next would come the contentious comments in meetings, “Well, that is NOT how we did it in Utah…” (implication being we don’t know what we’re doing as we are not from Utah!) Lots of patronizing comments along the “well aren’t you terrific passing out those invitations so well!” line. Unfortunately, my experience has only been with transplants. Maybe they are “different breed” of Utah Mormon. But it has definitely left a bad taste in my mouth!
I think you have to have never been a “Utah Mormon†to get it.
Stories like that make me sad. But please realize “we” aren’t all like that. I can tell you similar stories the other way, when people move from outside of Utah and can’t say enough of how awful it is here, how people are __________ (fill in the blank with any number of negative things), and how wonderful it was ‘there.’
We ALL need to open our minds and our hearts, and come together with what unites us — our testimonies and our covenants — and be willing to work together and learn from each other. We all are prone to hold too tightly to things that don’t matter, including our ways of doing things, and our attitudes and presuppositions about people or places.
I heart Segullah get-togethers!
Michelle–We’ve had several for local staff members. We’ll have to throw a big party sometime for anyone around who loves Segullah. Thanks for the suggestion!
Leisha–I’ve met people that sound very much like you have described. That kind of behavior (displayed under any circumstance), the “I know more than you” attitude when you’re dealing with a newcomer is ugly indeed. I think Utah Mormons need to know that they are perceived that way so they can avoid being that person. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I’ve argued both sides of this all of my life. When people bash Utah I am usually quick to defend it. My husband is Utah born and bred and he & his family are wonderful. We lived for 5 years in Idaho and loved it there.
On the other hand, as a teenager I saw a family in my Iowa ward decide that they *must* move back to Utah in order to safely raise their teenagers–within 1 year both of their girls and their son’s new girlfriend were pregnant. A few years later my aunt and uncle, who for their whole married lives had told anyone who would listen that they would never be happy until they lived in Utah again, moved back. My younger cousin immediately found a girlfriend & got her pregnant, and my aunt and uncle seem no happier than they were in the east.
There are a couple of things I have observed that seem to contribute to the Utah stereotypes:
“Native” members of my ward here in North Carolina say that until the last decade or so, anyone who moved from Utah came with the “we’ll show you how it’s done” attitude.
Additionally, the belief that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the one true church of God here on the earth is sometimes extrapolated to mean that people of other religions don’t have a clue. I sat in a Sunday School class in Bountiful about 2 years ago and listened to the Sunday School teacher explain that the reason a professional football player might spike a ball in the endzone after a touchdown and fall to his knees to give (very) public and loud thanks to God is because he “doesn’t know as much as we do.” After a few more disparaging comments about people of other religions I made a comment about my experiences having lived in North Carolina for 10 years. The teacher ignored what I said and went on in the same line until someone else made a comment saying that they really felt a lot of people were offended by the not uncommon LDS attitude that we know so much better than everyone else when it comes to God & religion. After having lived more than a dozen years in the Bible belt I must say that we do not. I am surrounded by people who love the Lord and live closer to Him than I do.
I also think that it can be a challenge to live in Utah as a non-member. I had one friend who lived in Utah for about 5 years and finally begged her husband to ask for a transfer. Her children were not included by the neighborhood children because they weren’t LDS, and when my friend drank a cup of coffee the LDS women around her just about had a heart attack. (And this was an upper middle class neighborhood up near the University of Utah—where you might expect less narrow mindedness.) A few weeks ago another friend told me that a co-worker in Cache Valley is unhappy because neighborhood children aren’t allowed to play with her children because they are non-members.
Obviously each one of these experiences is a “unique†event. But enough unique events over time probably give rise to the stereotypes. I agree that it helpful to know which things cause problems, so that we can make sure our behavior isn’t inadvertently causing offense. If I could go back to my 5 years in Idaho there are definitely some things I’d do differently…
Sorry this is so long–it’s something I’ve thought a lot about!
Cindy– Two stories/comments. First, a bit about exclusion: The parents in my neighborhood growing up also wouldn’t let their children play with me (due to a rebellious older brother) and I was LDS. It hurt, a lot. I thought they were wrong. I still think they’re wrong. But, I have children of my own now and I don’t think I’m justified resenting their own best attempts at “good” parenting given how poorly I’ve handled a few parenting situations myself. Plus, the cruel hand of fate served them up a few of their own rebellious teens years later. Being human sucks sometimes.
And about the LDS/Non-LDS divide: my non-LDS niece who lives in Utah is consistently complaining about “the Mormons” and how much she hates them. It was a shock for her when my dad reminded her that they, her grandparents and cousins, were Mormon. “Do you hate us too?” he asked. “No, not you guys, of course,” she responded. I think the attitude of separation (most often fed to the children from the parents) comes from both sides of the LDS/non-LDS divide, sadly serving no one.
The Utah=Zion equation is obviously a false idea. Utah is a place where quite a few people choose to live. Where quite a few Mormons (good, bad, ugly) live. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am Maralise’s sister. I have not read as much of the magazine as I should, knowing my sister writes for it quite often. Neither am I as eloquent in writing as she is. I have lived in Utah my entire life except for the year and a half in Belgium as a missionary. My feelings in reading so many of these posts is one of defense, of hurt, of surprise, of sadness, but most of all a confusion. I see my sister who has experienced both worlds take a stand of understanding and compassion while acknowledging to good and bad that exists in each polar opposite. I agree with everything she says. I have known both good and bad of living here. I guess all I have to say is the words of the primary song: “I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I know who I am, I know God’s plan, I’ll follow him in faith.” I think we are all trying, (and often times stumbling) to live our beliefs. I too have seen judgments passed and have also seen those judgments come full circle in lives around me. I recognize the need for healthy discussion and the need to find explanations for why things are said and done sometimes to the detriment of others. I hope however in the end that we can see each other as sisters in God’s kingdom no matter where we worship.
Marn–love you. This conversation is difficult sometimes because we’re openly admitting that there are differences of opinion on whether the stereotype or stereotypes are accurate and why. And of course, if it serves some purpose to espouse the feelings that come from its offense or defense.
For me, it’s hard because I feel like I spend a lot of time fighting the stereotype, a lot of energy proving I’m not a “Utah Mormon” which after as many new wards as I’ve been in, is getting old. It’s starting to feel like a waste of my limited time. So, as much as I want the stereotype to go away, I don’t think it will. But, conversations like this I hope will help.
The point I wanted to make is it’s no more fair to judge all “Utah Mormons” by a few isolated incidents–or maybe even an entire wardful of incidents–than it would be to judge all “Nonmembers” all “California Mormons” or any other group with a label.
As for the thought expressed earlier that being open-minded and welcoming is somehow a new concept and a change we need to make, I just need to state that I and many of the wonderful “older” women I know would never ask someone why they weren’t married or didn’t have any children.
Do people in my ward sometimes say things without thinking? I’m sure they do, but that is not unique to Utah. I have watched people in my ward love and welcome people from all walks of life into our congregation and even forgive a man who robbed many of them of their retirement savings. It isn’t that different from the ward I grew up in away from Utah, and that ward suffered from some pretty serious heartbreaks as well.
My husband often gives me some good advice I think could help ease this apparent and really unfortunate conflict. Whenever someone says something that rubs me the wrong way he asks me to look at whether or not the person who said it meant to offend. In very few instances can I honestly say the person meant to hurt me.
Thanks Maralise–you’re a brave woman to take this on. But I appreciate your efforts and your beautifully expressed thoughts. This is one of the nicest and most civilized discussions on this topic I’ve read.
Dalene–I need to take your husband’s advice (frequently and often), it’s solid.
One thing that occurred to me while re-reading everyone’s comments is that I wonder if this is more of a “transplant” problem. I wonder if someone like me is exactly the kind of person who is most likely to offend and should therefore be even more sensitive. I think the false doctrine of the superiority of the “mission field” could definitely contribute to this problem.
Also, and in summary, I think one point that I failed to emphasize in my post is what a wonderful place Utah is to teach us one fundamental lesson: there are many ways to be a Mormon. Let me edit that, there are many ways to be a good Mormon. nuff said.
We will probably move out of Utah at some point. I’d like to see the country! Honestly, one of my biggest fears is that I would not be accepted in a ward because of moving from Utah.
[...] got me thinking more about this with her discussion of “Utah Mormon’s” and “Mission Field Mormon’s”. Are we trying to put ourselves in a happy place by relegating other’s to a lesser [...]
Hello Everyone!!, My husband and I are currently living in Colorado. He’s never been to utah but I have and I swear, every time I leave I miss it so much!!! When I’m there, I make jokes about everything (lovingly of course)
But when I move away, i find myself bitter and comapring everything to utah, and when people speak negative of it I’m quick to defend. We were looking for reviews on living and raising a family in utah. We have only been married a year but are looking to the future, the only concern I had was wondering if our children would have the oppurtunity to exercise their testimonys and if going to school for them in utah would become about “who’s more righteous?”
The things I miss about Utah (of course Tuccanos in Provo!!) And don’t laugh….I miss the billboards on the side of the freeway advertizing Temple marriage and going on a mission, i miss how you can walk into the grocery store and hear someone speaking of priesthood meeting and know EXACTLY what they’re talking about. I miss how on mondays you’ll see a zillion families with their 5 strollers walking around the Temple, or how on Wednesdays you see moms crying outside of the MTC, I miss seeing everyone on the streets in church entire and knowing they’re going to the exact same place as you, I miss cookies from visiting teachers, I miss seeing couples of all ages on Friday and saturday nights on their “date-night” I miss the feeling of walking into the creamery. I miss salt lake, I miss how if I had a bad day I can drive 3 minutes to the Temple or 20 to another temple of MY choice,
Yes we all have our ideas of “utah mormons” but my husband and I are from FL and I lived in Utah for about 5 years. I had a HORRIBLE experience in FL. I was young and attractive and when i converted instead of the girls welcoming me in, they treated me as competition and then when the few select RM’s returned home and I started dating a few, the girls’s claws came out, it was horrible, they were insecure, and wrather than going to the gym and putting on some makeup, they tore down others to make themselves feel better. When I went to Utah……it gets me teary just thinking about how wonderful an experience it was, everyone told me I would hate it, but Utah was where I learned how mormons were supposed to treat eachother, I learned what the gospel was really about, there is no way, no matter how many books I were to read, that I would be as knowledgeable in the gospel as I am now had I not moved there. no one called me names and their were plenty of pretty girls around that no one was mean to me. The spirit is just every where 24/7 and I loved that so much. Being a convert, I moved to utah shortly after I was baptized not knowing anyone, I was 18, I needed a secure environment, a place to learn further about the church….it was so easy to be good in utah and in the process I was able to build my strong foundation. I love utah and would reccomend it to anyone.