Trying to Cure the Seven Year Itch? Scratch It. Often.

Posted by Guest | November 10, 2009 | 30 Comments

Today’s Up Close post comes from Nan, a cheery and clever woman who delights in her expedition. In her words: “I spent the first 18 years of my life in the same house and ward in Northern Utah. In the decade and a half since, I’ve had 30 different addresses in places as remote as Orange, Australia to the cosmopolitan Houston, Texas. In my professional life I’ve mostly been a teacher; in my private life I’m most comfortable being a wife and a mother. I post under the name scienceteachermommy on a blog titled Nomad. I’m grateful for each lesson taught and each friend encountered on the journey.”

[Picture is her tenth anniversary trip; hiking the Navajo Trail in Bryce Canyon just after sunrise.]

Nan Peterson The first year of marriage was hard for me. I thought it was because my independent streak and need for alone-time were too powerful to make living with another something that came naturally; hadn’t I had the same difficulty on my mission? I certainly wasn’t conflicted about marriage, but I was fairly ambivalent toward the whole having-kids-thing and was motivated by career dreams.

I didn’t know whom to talk to about my difficulties. I’d never met anyone who suggested the first year of marriage was anything but bliss: a never-ending honeymoon. More than one friend told me with a wink and a smile that if you put a jellybean in a jar every time you had sex the first year, you could eat one of those jellybeans every time you were intimate in the years after and never run out. I hate jellybeans. I was also told that women give sex to get love, and that men show love to get sex.It took SEVEN years of marriage before I realized, in fact, much of my difficulty had nothing to do with independence, but everything to do with sex. And maybe a bit to do with a birth control pill that triggered severe emotional meltdowns in place of ovulation.

As a biology teacher, I was plenty smart about the mechanics of sex. I was also plenty smart about Church doctrine regarding sex. On my mission I’d asked Australian men at the peak of their virility to live the law of chastity without flinching. What I didn’t know was anything about how married LDS men and women felt about the sex act itself, or the appropriateness of an LDS women oozing sex appeal for her husband. Any talk from a church leader that I’d ever heard regarding sex was about fornication and sin and pornography and agency with the occasional addendum, “Sex is wonderful, but later.”

When I was engaged to my sweetheart I had no doubt we were attracted to one another. I knew holding hands was blissful, kissing incredible and that certain kinds of touches had to be avoided for fear of starting “the launch sequence.” What I didn’t know is how powerful the sex drive is for men. I didn’t know I would feel a measure of guilt over something that had been a “no” my whole life. A single “yes” wasn’t enough to undo my many and varied hang-ups. I didn’t know how to talk to my husband carefully and tenderly about what I did and didn’t like during our lovemaking. I didn’t realize that sex wasn’t just for him, or a tool of manipulation for me: it was something for us.

LDS women will talk, at length, about intensely personal things from episiotomies to hysterectomies. But we don’t often talk about sex—our reservations and difficulties, advice for eradicating some of our unhealthier inhibitions, or the sheer enjoyment to be taken from this act of perfect union.

Please don’t misunderstand: sex is not only highly personal but sacred. I’m not advocating devolving our girl-talk into kiss-and-tell sessions. But there must be times when it is appropriate to ask questions of people you trust. There must be circumstances where we feel okay about confiding the joy that comes after the best lovemaking.

Mostly I think I’m talking about communication with our spouses on a more specific and personal level. After seven years and several key events I wondered when exactly I had begun taking my husband’s love for granted. When, exactly, did I start treating him like a roommate who occasionally received his wife’s dutiful intimacy? And in the dark, on a walk in the woods, I was finally honest with him about my issues.

When we became open with one another, it broke my heart to learn that my husband’s too-often reluctance was a fear of being rejected. These fears led him to be less attentive, leading me to be less willing, etc., etc. Neither of us had been able to break a cycle we didn’t even realize we were trapped in. I was energized. I had once flirted and acted coy. I had once put all my effort and energy into attracting his wonderful self, and I could do it again.

Guess what? I found joy that summer. Real joy. Our relationship flourished under the attention of regular dates and frequent pillow talk—both as foreplay and as tender communication afterward. I didn’t give sex to get love, but when I was a willing, and even eager partner, my eternal companion was able to express love in a way I had only caught glimpses of before. Sex and love ceased to be dichotomies, and instead intimacy became as valuable to our relationship as serving, working and parenting.

How can we teach our children to recognize the glorious and empowering divine to be experienced with the act of sex while simultaneously warning them against the darker and debasing aspects of human sexuality? How can we move beyond the “fire warms and fire burns” adage to teach them that sensuality and spirituality are not mutually exclusive?

Comments

30 Responses to “Trying to Cure the Seven Year Itch? Scratch It. Often.”

Jennie
November 10th, 2009 @ 8:55 am

I’m all ears for this one. While I have no problem talking to my friends about sex, and am very open with my husband about what I like and don’t like, when it comes to my children I am clueless and very shy. I don’t want to sound totally prissy, so I don’t really know what to say. My mother was very, very open with my about sex. So much so that it completely embarassed me. Every time she’d bring up the subject I’d just about die (which I still feel like to this day.)

When I sat down with my daughter to talk about sex when she was 10 or 11, I started giggling like a fifth grader. I was embarrassed to be talking about it, and I was embarassed that I was so embarrassed. I need help!
Rosemary
November 10th, 2009 @ 9:29 am

I don’t have any great answers. I will share that when my daughter was about 10 or 11 and beginning to develop at an early age, I took the time to talk carefully with her about what was happening to her body. Over a period of time, among the things we talked about was sex itself. Her first reaction was “ugh”, but I remember saying that when two people are in love and are married, it will be one of the most wonderful things you will ever share. We didn’t dwell on it or anything, but it all helped her to have a very healthy view of sex. She is now married and has a child. Before she married, she shared on more than one occasion that she was so glad that we had talked freely. She was surprised that many of her friends knew so little and were so afraid when they were getting married. My mother had handled it all much the same way, so I am glad that my daughter does not have those hangups. I don’t know all the answers, but talking freely and openly – when the moment is right – certainly helps.
Krista
November 10th, 2009 @ 9:43 am

This article needs to find a wider audience. It struck home with me on so many levels. Except I wanted a child to fill that void between my husband and I, a companion. It worked, but looking back, it is easy to see what my husband and I missed out on while I put energy into motherhood and he in his work, all the while with the whole “avoid the attempt out of fear of rejection” cycle going on.
My mother was very open about talking sex, but she missed things.
My husband and I flirt, we throw out innuendos, we dance and kiss and grab hands and raise our eyebrows, anytime, in any circumstance. It took us years to get here.
I don’t want my kids to have to wait that long in their marriages. How do we teach that?
amelia bedelia
November 10th, 2009 @ 10:09 am

I know it sounds cliche, but I truly could’ve written this post, down to the details. We’ve even been married for 7.5 years We have the same problems, and had a big long talk about it the other week – we both want to get past the issues, but I think we both feel trapped in that vicious cycle the author mentioned. I would love some advice on how to break the patterns that are there, and start afresh…help?
Melissa M.
November 10th, 2009 @ 10:36 am

I can relate, Jennie. I don’t know why, but I have the hardest time talking to my kids about sex. The first time my husband and I talked to my oldest child about sex, it was very awkward. After our obviously uncomfortable discussion, during which my husband blushed like a tomato and we both stammered and hemmed and hawed, we asked our daughter if she had any questions. She paused for a moment and then said, “Yes. What is sex?”

Frankly, I would rather have my fingernails pulled off than talk to my children about sex, which makes me feel like the world’s worst parent. My youngest just turned 11 and I have yet to have the sex talk with her—it’s long overdue, I know—ridiculous, even. Somebody help me.
Blue
November 10th, 2009 @ 10:38 am

on the kid side:

talking to your children when they are young…like 8 years old, is NOT too early…and at that age the “squirm factor” is almost non-existent. it’s just a matter-of-fact conversation. MOST of the info will be new to them (though you’d be surprised what they’ve heard by then!), and it normalizes the topic for them.

we did this with our 1st, and it was a good experience, not uncomfortable at all. but our 2nd was asking questions, specific questions, and really wanted answers. he was only 5, so i would tell him “when you’re 8, we’ll talk about it.” i soon realized this was a missed opportunity, and that he would get the answers from somewhere…so we finally sat him down and answered all his questions.

now, at 12 and 10, they both have heard EVERYTHING. i do mean everything. from what happens to our bodies, how things work, all the various methods, and how some people abuse others. knowing everything makes it a lot less awkward when we have something come up that we need to revisit. not that we discuss sex, or abuse, or puberty etc. on a daily basis, but when things come up, they’re already aware and are less uncomfortable asking questions.

that’s my advise on how to discuss it. start early. as for the marriage…i’ll be interested in what ya’ll have to say. ♥
Kathryn Soper
November 10th, 2009 @ 10:46 am

Fantastic post, Nan.

I experienced a similar dynamic in my marriage. It wasn’t until after my sixth child was born that we finally found our groove, so to speak. Wonderful things happened when sex became part of the daily fabric of our marriage, in a variety of ways.

I know my kids will need time and experimentation in their marriages to reach a similar place of harmony–as jks perfectly said in the “engines” thread, “great things take time”–but I think there’s a lot to be said for teaching correct principles upfront. I mean, we learn gospel principles two ways: through theory and through practice. You can’t skip the practice part–no matter how hard you study, you simply cannot know the truth until you experience it yourself, and you learn just as much by making mistakes as you learn from “choosing the right.” But how much harder it is to learn if nobody tells you about the principles to begin with!

It can be really tricky (and potentially creepy) to “church-ify” sex, but I can’t help but think about the similarities between a newly-married couple and a person attending the temple for the first time. Yes, the temple is sacred, and we need to take care to gear our conversations appropriately–some things should only be discussed in the temple itself. But I think it’s wrong to toss a young person into a temple environment after merely saying, “It’s beautiful. It might seem strange at first, and it’s different from regular church, but as you gain experience it will start to make more sense.” I will speak frankly and specifically with my children prior to their first temple experience. I will show them the clothing, explain the ordinances in basic ways, help them envision what to expect, share with them some of what I’ve learned about temple worship, and answer any questions they might have. Of course, up until that point they will have learned a lot about the temple in a more general sense–but those lessons they get in FHE and primary and YM/YW are not enough. Participating in temple baptisms will help a lot, but even that isn’t enough to prepare them for such a momentous initiation.

Sex is not an ordinance (although it’s been called a sacrament) and again, I think we need to be careful not to paint it with an overly religious brush (although it’s certainly spiritual) because the two spheres–sex and religion–can make really uncomfortable bedfellows, so to speak. But there are some illuminating parallels as far as preparation goes. Generalities about how sacred and beautiful sex can be–and how vital it is to save it for the right time in one’s life–are great, but they’re only a beginning. Likewise, maturation lessons are not enough to prepare young adults to be sexually active, for sexuality has so much more to it than reproduction.

So I will tell my kids what I’ve learned about sex. And while they will have to learn through experience as well, at least they’ll have information about principles and practices to guide them. And as they see my husband and I interact in affectionate, playful, and appropriately romantic ways, hopefully they’ll pick up some clues about how to find the happiness my husband and I have found a little sooner in the game.

(As a beginning resource, I highly recommend Brad Wilcox’s book, Growing Up: Gospel Answers About Maturation and Sex. It’s written for a 10-13 year old audience. I’ve found it helpful for my kids to absorb introductory info in a non-threatening, non-embarrassing way. Then we use points from the book as a basis for conversation, and expand from there according to the child’s wants/needs.)
jtg
November 10th, 2009 @ 10:50 am

A very timely topic for me. Thank you for the insights, and I look forward to reading the rest of the comments
Tay
November 10th, 2009 @ 11:07 am

Well, I hope I’m on the right track for making it a comfortable topic for our family. My child is 17 months and we’re using correct terminology for his genitalia and not condemning body exploration. I want him to be a lot more comfortable in his body than I was/am. And I’m not going to make anything surrounding sex a taboo topic. I’ve accepted how it is with my parents and myself, but it would have been nice to have informed parents who were able to inform me. Maybe that’s the biggest problem – they themselves were uninformed.

So far in my 3 years of experience being married, my best experiment with my sexuality was to use alternative methods to hormone-based birth control. Because I’ll tell you what – I’m in the mood a whole lot more now than pre-child when I was on the pill. I’m sure it has a lot to do with the fact that I’m more accepting of myself now that my body has no perfection potential (yay pregnancy stretching! :p), but I think it’s also because my body balances itself nicely on its own. It’s nice to feel normal rather than frenzied. I hope we stay on this path. It’s so much nicer than the avoidance of the whole topic.

And it also helps to realize that we can be open with each other. For example, I’m more likely to give my husband the shaft if all he does is allude or hint. If he asks if sex is on the menu that night, asking outright, I can’t avoid thinking about it and his chances are about a million times better.
Nan
November 10th, 2009 @ 11:29 am

Elder Holland has given two fantastic talks on this topic. One was in October 1998, while my husband and I were dating. The other was in October 2005. The first is more about the spiritual reasons why we wait–very doctrinal and loving, the second is more to do with modesty. I think that they should be recommended reading for all young men and women.

As for younger kids, thanks for all the tidbits here, ladies. My oldest just started cubs this week and he and I have to go through the sexual abuse stuff at the first of the manual in the next week or two. While VERY important, especially as my little man strikes out on his own more and more, I just want to make sure that he understands that the sex act itself isn’t something to be ashamed of. Isn’t that what God said about Adam and Eve? They cleaved unto one another, and they were not ashamed. Could there be any lovelier thought?

Your comments were beautiful, Kathryn. I especially liked, “Wonderful things happened when sex became a part of the daily fabric of our marriage.” Yes!

And Amelia, two words: Red teddy. Or, if red isn’t your color, try black. While you might feel slightly foolish at first, there is nothing that makes a woman feel sexier than her man looking at her like she is the most beautiful woman in the world.
Allison
November 10th, 2009 @ 11:31 am

Right after my husband told me he had a pornography addiction and we met with the bishop, my libido skyrocketed- I couldn’t figure it out. The first week or so after he told me I couldn’t even let him touch me but once we talked to the bishop and we started really being honest with each other, I was willing and wanting to have sex.

It seemed that the exact opposite response I would have expected, but I think it happened because I finally felt like we were being 100% honest with each other, everything was out on the table, we were talking about sex, our marriage, how pornography had affected those things.

What I’m trying to say is that for me, our sex life was immeasurably improved by honesty. Even when it’s hard and uncomfortable, it brings a closeness and openness that translates to the bedroom.

Things are not perfect and we have definitely had the “avoid the attempt out of fear of rejection” problems but things are so much better in my marriage now that I’ve been forced to talk about them.

I hope this helps someone!
jendoop
November 10th, 2009 @ 11:58 am

In the day in which we live we must be plain in teaching our children. I started my daughters with the Care and Keeping of Me. It talks about keeping our bodies clean and well-groomed, this of course includes information about menstruation and puberty. Then after they have digested that information, we’ve had follow-up conversations. When my husband and I feel they are ready (it could be more than a year later), we discuss intimacy with the child that is the same gender that we are. I feel that it eliminates some of the discomfort that the child feels.

I believe another part of eliminating discomfort surrounding this issue is getting used to talking about sex in correct and appropriate ways with our spouse. I feel that when I use sexually oriented words in speaking with my husband I am more comfortable using them when talking with my daughters. Not that the conversations are similar, but that I can say the words correctly, clearly, and without passing any discomfort I might feel on to my daughter. I also talk to my husband about what I should say to our daughter, specifically. (eg. How much info she needs in a particular conversation.) This, to me, is another area in which we must learn line upon line.

Not only have I discussed the good aspects of sex with my daughters, but I have also talked to them about the horridness of pornography, and about keeping themselves safe from abuse – sexual, physical, and emotional. My daughter recently had an incident where another child touched her inappropriately. We talked about it, I stopped all interaction with that child and spoke to their parent. Now my daughter knows the value of honest and forthright talk about sexual issues and I have shown her that her body and feelings are priorities to her loving parents.
Syd
November 10th, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

Thank you so much for this post and all the comments. It has given me so much to think about. I’ve always felt that part of the pornography problem stems from curiosity. A young boy goes in search of answers to his questions and gets hooked. For that reason I plan on talking to my children openly and honestly, but that is easier said than done. I love what Blue said about starting young, and I think I may do that. Thanks again for this post and all the amazing comments.
Heidi
November 10th, 2009 @ 1:16 pm

Fabulous post. I agree that it needs to be something we can talk more about.

I come from a family of awkwardness and silence on this topic. My Mom sat me down 2 weeks before my wedding, but by then I had learned most of it elsewhere (during the months of my engagement)

So now that my parents are on a mission, and I in care of their home and 3 college-age kids (along with 2 tinies of my own), I took the opportunity to talk VERY openly and candidly with my younger sister, who’s roommate is pushing the lines hard and fast.

My husband and I just had your “talk in the woods” about our problems and just a few weeks before this post, recommitted to it. However, as we’re working through things I’m discovering that some of our problems might require professional help. I’m not even sure how to go about that process. Anyone?
Yankee Girl
November 10th, 2009 @ 1:38 pm

As always you have put together a fantastic post!
Mary Ann
November 10th, 2009 @ 1:55 pm

Wonderful post, and timely, too. My mom was visiting and said that if it weren’t so weird, she’d give her married children this book, _And They Were Not Ashamed: Strengthening Marriage Through Sexual Fulfillment_ by Laura M Brotherson. Mom is a psychologist and is recommending it to plenty of clients, and also in the young married Sunday School she teaches. I was curious enough to look it up at the Provo library, and imagine my surprise that they not only had half a dozen copies, but that they were *all* checked out and had a sizeable waiting list. Nan has hit a hot topic in Mormondom!
My mom did actually send it to me, and it is specifically to an LDS audience, and spends a lot of time talking about the cultural conditioning we receive in the church. There is a great chapter on the physiological differences between men and women which would make excellent starting points for discussions with your spouse. But, even my mom was embarrassed talking about sex with me, so I guess that part doesn’t get much easier.
As for teaching kids, my sister-in-law is one of Richard and Linda Eyre’s kids. She explained to us how her parents gave her the big talk, with a date with them when she was eight. Perhaps most importantly was the marketing, that it was going to be “the most amazing secret in the world!” that they were going to tell her. Having both parents there presenting sex as something they were excited about and thought she was mature enough to know, gave her a positive view of sex. They also explained how sometimes she was going to hear other things about sex as negative and degrading, and that she could just remember to herself that she knew the *real* story.
Having seen the results of their work in my sister-in-law, my husband and I are going that route. So we recommend _How To Talk To Your Child About Sex_ by the Eyres. Didn’t realize I was quite so bookish!
Nan
November 10th, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

Allison, Thanks for your bravery. And the hope. Your comment illustrates that such a dangerous addiction doesn’t have to end a marriage. No doubt there will still be a long way to go, but I admire your candidness.

Heidi–Maybe MaryAnn’s first recommendation would be a good place to start. I also really like one that came out in the late 90′s (?) called Between Husband and Wife. If you need to go to the next level you could research to find if there is an LDS Social Services in your area, or your bishop may have therapist recommendations if there is not a specific LDS one. Not that your therapist has to be LDS to be helpful, of course, but some of our unique marriage doctrines make it helpful to have a therapist who understands where you are coming from and won’t undermine your faith.

As for the second book–it is on my “to read” list. Maybe I need to move it to the top of the list.
Katie
November 10th, 2009 @ 3:27 pm

I agree with Allison’s statement about honesty. When I hold back from talking to my husband about things, whether because I don’t want to hurt his feelings or I just feel embarrassed, it always just leads to more trouble. When I am honest with him, sometimes there is some unpleasantness at first, but our relationship is always so much better afterwards that it is always worth it.

When we got married I was pretty ignorant and shy about sex, and it took a lot of practice for me to really be able to talk to my husband about it. But, all those times where I felt so mortified were definitely worth it. I found the more I talked about it, the easier it got. For me, our sex relationship really clicked when I got pregnant the first time. When I realized that sex is what brought the marvelous blessing that was my baby, it didn’t seem so icky or taboo anymore. I was much more willing to talk, and to listen, and to try different things that helped us enjoy it a lot more. Also, we have continued to talk, and listen, and educate ourselves and each other, and the sex just keeps getting better!
m&m
November 10th, 2009 @ 4:29 pm

My thought on the children thing is to make it a part of the fabric of your teaching. I am always, — always! — on the lookout for moments to bring it up. I am very against the notion of “the talk” as though it happens only once. We began when our children were 4, 5, and 6 when a neighbor child thought she would tell the kids in the neighborhood about sex (“it’s when parents get in bed naked and kiss”). We waited until the Spirit guided us for the moment to go into more specifics about the mechanics when they were older. But in those intervening years, it was always ready on my tongue whenever a moment arose. It IS hard, but the Spirit has helped me. And really, I rarely feel more power as a mom and an instrument in God’s hands when I am teaching my children, line upon line, the TRUTHS about what this is all about, how it fits into God’s plan, why chastity is so important to God, and how it really is something they don’t have to have icky feelings about.

Another thing that I think is so important: Children have sexual feelings and responses even before they hit puberty. I think that this is part of why children respond with “ewwwwwwwwwwww” when they see their parents kissing. I think they may be feeling something and not know what to do with that feeling. We can start when they are young to help them not associate those feelings with an ick factor. To see those feelings in the context of God’s plan, and the law of chastity as a gift to help us protect that power and our bodies until we are in a married relationship where we can express and enjoy those feelings. We talk of that also being a gift to your future spouse. We talk of how sometimes those feelings come w/o warning, but that you can then make choices to not FEED them or make them stronger. Helping them see the difference between reflex and choice is essential, imo. I think it’s important to help them be armed with truth while their brains are developing so that they can learn and build into their brains appropriate understanding and responses to stimuli and their bodies.

I have felt without question God’s help in this facet of my teaching. Pray for help. Pray for awareness of moments when and where you can teach. Those moments for me have come in small packets of a few minutes here and there.

What drives me to always be open is that I don’t want them to hear about anything from others first. Of course, I probably can’t anticipate it all, but I can arm them with the basic and pure truths about sex and how essential chastity is in protecting the plan of God and our own spiritual well-being. And I can be an open, comfortable place where they know they can ask questions.

For all the specifics that my parents didn’t answer, I will be forever grateful to the fact that I had an interview with my dad EVERY month. I had a planned time when I could ask him anything. And I did, when I knew what to ask. It was a heavensend.

Think of the phrase, “loins girt about with truth.” There is MUCH truth about this topic about which we can teach our children. Our generation is most blessed to have good information out there that is clear and helpful and uplifting in its approach.

Sorry…although I’m still in the midst of all of this, I do have strong feelings about how important it is for us to be clear and consistent and courageous in teaching over all the years we can about these things.
bekah
November 10th, 2009 @ 5:12 pm

My parents really weren’t much for talking about sex (aside from “the talk” that my mom gave me at age 9), so I was rather shocked several years ago when my husband informed me that my father was planning to give all of his married children a copy of “Between Husband & Wife” for Christmas! Apparently, since he had become a bishop, my father had determined that most marital struggles were either about finances or intimacy, and he wanted each of his kids to work on improving his or her intimate relationship with their respective spouse. All this from a man that I had never heard utter the word “sex”.

While my husband is a marriage therapist and we already owned the book, I appreciated my dad’s concern. However, we hope to avoid the “better late than never” approach with our kids. We start talking with our kids about sex before they enter public school, usually at age 3 or 4. We have some wonderful books by a Christian (but non-LDS) couple, Brenna & Stan Jones, called the God’s Design for Sex series. There are 4 different books geared towards different developmental stages, and start with very general information. They can be a great way to avoid embarassment and open up conversations with your kids.

As far as marriage goes, I have to agree with many of the previous comments–talk about it! It can be great to have trusted friends, older siblings, etc, to whom we can turn to ask appropriate questions and help us gain a better perspective, but nothing improves your sex life like discussing it in an open, honest, vulnerable way with your spouse. Add in a bit of patience, some practice, and a little time away from the kids, and things tend to improve dramatically.
Jana
November 10th, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

We’ve had books about sex in my kids’ libraries since they were born (picture books early on and then more detailed books with text later). So they’ve always known about sex just like they’ve known about other biological processes like digestion. It never occurred to me to have a big ‘reveal’ on the topic when they hit their teens. That _would_ be terribly awkward.

I say, if it’s uncomfortable for you to talk to your own kids about sex, maybe you should have a close friend who’s more comfortable with the topic do it. I would totally do this for any of my friends who were having a hard time broaching the subject with their teens.
FoxyJ
November 10th, 2009 @ 9:28 pm

I agree with others that greater honesty in marriage makes for a better sex life, even if the honesty is not just about that. I have a hard time being comfortable enough with my vulnerability if the rest of our relationship isn’t going well. We’ve gone through some hard times in our marriage, but it’s often after those difficult talks that sex actually becomes better. Cycles of avoidance can be hard to break though.

I also think that comfort talking with our spouse can help us be more comfortable talking with our kids. I liked Kathy’s thoughts on theory and practice. My parents were are always very open about their affection for each other, to the point that I felt (and still do sometimes) embarassed–but that’s probably just my personality. Our kids are six and three and I’m not sure either knows the mechanics of sex yet. But they do know about conception and what their body parts are named and things like that. When my daughter was only four, we both felt that we should talk to her about keeping her body private–we got a great book about ‘my body is for me’ that emphasized communicating about your personal space and talking about any inappropriate touch that they didn’t like, even hugs from relatives. It turned out that she had two different incidents in the next few months that she talked with us about–neither was horribly abusive, but both were inappropriate and I’m glad we had the language to talk with her about them. Anyways, I think that like others have said we need to talk early and often about all kinds of things related to sexuality as well as work on our own relationship with our spouse (and our spiritual relationship with our Heavenly Father)
Kathryn Soper
November 11th, 2009 @ 8:03 am

btw, just found out the Wilcox book I mentioned is temporarily available as a free download from DB:

http://deseretbook.com/free
Tess
November 11th, 2009 @ 11:26 am

In the Marriage and Family Relations class, there is a lesson specifically about teaching your children “moral purity.” It’s Lesson 14. This lesson recommends a booklet called “A Parent’s Guide” that outlines what should be taught to children at specific ages. The book is definitely worth looking at!

I’m not a parent yet, but I feel like the most important thing a parent can do is help their kids feel comfortable enough to come to them with questions and not their friends or the media. I don’t remember a specific time when my mom first talked to me about sex, but I definitely knew that she would answer my questions.
jks
November 11th, 2009 @ 1:41 pm

Blame Hollywood, not other married couples. I think if you ever listen to happily long married couples you will hear about communication and understanding and making intimacy a priority and taking time for each other and loving each other, that sex is an important part of marriage. No couple that I want to be like has ever said something about jellybeans in a jar.
I think perhaps people don’t hear what they aren’t ready to hear. I can tell my daughter things but she is young and has no frame of reference. How can you tell someone who hasn’t had sex yet about everything you’ve learned in a17 year marriage? And my journey is about me and my husband and it is our own unique journey. Our sex lives are never textbook, they are unique and our own experiences. What happens with one couple doesn’t necessarily translate to another couple.
So I try to be open, but it is just like talking about raising children. You realize that chances are the people you talk to are going to disregard much of what you say because either they aren’t in a place to get what you are getting at. Perhaps they need to figure it out on their own.
I do feel like I have wisdom but there are very few who want to hear it. The young have been taught that they are “it.” So they pick up their knowledge from pop culture and assume that older and wiser people don’t get it. It is their loss.
jks
November 11th, 2009 @ 1:55 pm

cont.
When I think about my sex life it is good because it is what we have made it. There have been thousands of interactions between us that have made it what it is. How can I really sum that up in a few sentences to tell someone else what it is like and how to acheive it? It is like my marriage. It is what we have made it. We took what we had and we made little decisions every second of every day and those have all added up to what our marriage is. Every time we’ve been mad or sad or happy or honest or made a mistake or had a tragedy or felt stressed, etc. we have written another part of our marriage that has long term effects. How do you explain it to someone else? Once I was mad and I decided to be quiet about it, that it was the best choice. One time I was mad and I decided to speak up and push the issue. Times I was mad and prayed. Times I was mad and just went to bed and it went away. Times I didn’t want sex and said no. Times I didn’t want sex so I made sure he touched me in ways that I did feel like being touched instead so that I was in the mood for sex. The ways to balance openness and honesty and not overdo the pressure or cause hurt feelings.
Some things just take too long to explain. But if someone really wants to know, there are many people willing to share their experiences, if you want your info from something else besides TV.
Natasha
November 11th, 2009 @ 7:44 pm

I’m not married and don’t have children, but I do have experiences from when I was young.

Growing up, sex was pretty much a taboo topic in my home. It wasn’t really discussed and I don’t remember having “the talk.” From church I learned that everything related to it was “No”- don’t do it, don’t think about it, pretty much just avoid it all together, which I understand because of the law of chastity, but it wasn’t very helpful as a whole. I often felt that sex was a “natural man” urge/desire and that to have those feelings was a sin. I still somewhat feel that way.

Now, as a young single adult, I have trouble reconciling the topic of sex with being able to over come the “no” that I have heard my whole life (and I’m sure there will be struggles when I am first married). I appreciated this author’s comment: “I didn’t know I would feel a measure of guilt over something that had been a “no” my whole life. A single “yes” wasn’t enough to undo my many and varied hang-ups.”

I plan to be open with my future husband on the topic of sex. From previous comments, that seems to be one of the main ways to resolve this whole thing. Also, from my family studies classes, I know that sex is one of the major causes of arguments between husband and wife. Open communication will help resolve this.

Thank you for this post, Nan. And thank you, Segullah for having posts on this topic, it is very needed in the LDS community.
Paula
November 11th, 2009 @ 9:51 pm

“Fire warms, fire burns,” really? I believe I was a Mia Maid when the YM/YW in our ward did a musical festuring that song. A blast from the past for sure.
Sherry
November 12th, 2009 @ 12:07 am

My mom was really open with me about sex, usually to the point of making me uncomfortable. On the up-side, sex has not been an issue in my marriage (of four years, so there’s always room for it to be an issue later, I guess). I think my husband didn’t know a lot about sex when we got married, but because I was really open about it, he was too.

But I have no idea how I will address the topic with my own kids. It is something I have thought about a lot. I want them to feel comfortable about the topic, like I was. But at the same time, I don’t know if kids can every feel really comfortable talking to their parents about sex. Maybe it was just me? (Also, I have no children yet, so I guess I will just think about this later.)
Velska
November 13th, 2009 @ 1:43 pm

Kids can be very comfortable; depends on the parents’ attitude a lot.

But sure, kids are individuals, too, as are parents, so I guess there will never be a one-size-fits-all formula.

I went through a therapy in the mid 1990s, and had amazing discussions with the therapist that helped me open up about things. My problems were not sexual, really, but if relationship doesn’t work, neither does sex. So it ended up helping every way.

BTW, my therapist was an IPA member, and I think it’s totally wrong to declare Freudian ideas dead. Freud had the right ideas about a lot of stuff; he just had to invent a completely new vocabulary that ended up being a little controversial with many people. There are few pure behaviorists around; most realize that of course your childhood experiences are reflected in your later life.