At Segullah, we pride ourselves on highlighting women relevant to Mormon letters. This quarter’s featured woman, Ganel-Lyn Condie, writes in a genre rarely featured in literary magazines, and yet, her work adds to the discourse in the Church today. As a best-selling, self-help writer and public speaker of “real” topics, Ganel-Lyn impacts discussion surrounding contemporary social issues.
More than 7000 miles away when I interviewed Ganel-Lyn (I in Nigeria, she in Utah), I sensed that she was the kind of friend I could call at three in the morning and blurt out any sleep-stealing woe. I also guessed that she would slip on her flipflops, jump in the car, and arrive at my house ready to share the perfect story to make it all better.
See for yourself.
Bio: Ganel-Lyn is a popular motivational speaker – known for inspiring others with her unique honesty, authenticity, and spirit. She is dedicated to her family, faith, and inspiring others. Ganel-Lyn loves teaching others with speaking and writing. She has experienced healing from a major chronic illness and is the mother to two miracle children. After the heartbreaking suicide of her 40-year-old sister, Ganel-Lyn is constantly working towards prevention. Ganel-Lyn lives with an open heart and feels passionate about sharing principles that will empower others to live life with more joy. She is a regular television and radio guest. Ganel-Lyn’s talks and books have now encouraged thousands of people all over the world. She loves growing older with her cute husband Rob and aims to keep learning and loving.
The Interview
Sherilyn Fuhriman (Co-Editor-in-Chief at Segullah): Thank you for agreeing to the interview! Let’s start with this—How did you come to be a public speaker and best-selling author? Did one experience serve as the catalyst, or did it happen more gradually?
Ganel-Lyn Condie (Public Speaker and Author): I will share authentically what I’ve experienced, knowing that everyone’s journey is different. People wonder if the speaking started because of the books. They actually happened separate from each other but were unfolding at the same time. I was already speaking on various subjects, and it snowballed. I talked about balance and organization in a very God-directed way. For the next year, I kept getting requests to speak, but no one knew I was trying to get a book published.
I had been the marketing and PR director for Wasatch Woman Magazine (as it was easy to find the best local SEO training that helped to become the person who I am now), and I was hired as the managing editor. I had writers working for me. I share this story: I remember specifically sitting in the temple and being told to leave that position. People spend a whole lifetime trying to get a managing editor position at a publishing house, so the fact that I don’t have a degree in English and I have a degree in Elementary Education and minor in Psychology—to walk away from that was very God-directed. You have to be willing to walk away from things and have God talk to you about the most simple parts of your life.
I had dreams that were very much Oprah-esque. I love telling other people’s stories and love talking about faith in an authentic way. At the time of the publication of my first book, not many were talking about some of these raw subjects (within the LDS market) like faith crises, divorce, depression, anxiety, losing a child, suicide, and chronic illness. When God had said write that first book, I had already started speaking. There were so many books out there—I didn’t see a gap. The title of the book and ideas would never leave. My husband lost a job, and for the first time we were unemployed, and I had time because I had help with carpool. I submitted the first manuscript and got two rejections letters. While it was happening, I was speaking all the time. I didn’t shop for an agent or go to a conference. I almost gave up after the second rejection letter. One of my friends, Richard Paul Evans, said you really need to get this published. I resubmitted it to Covenant. We had moved and started over.
March of the next year 2014, my 40-year-old sister took her life. Six weeks after, Covenant approached me and offered to publish the manuscript and other projects I was working on. I will always talk about suicide. I was also able to work with the Church on their initial suicide web site, and a link to my sister’s story is on there (http://www.ldsliving.com/4-Lessons-of-Hope-I-Learned-from-My-Sister-s-Suicide/s/78249). That is one of my big “whys,” but I’m not just a suicide speaker. If an organization calls me I will always bring it up. On a very sacred level, when I had those first two rejection letters, Meg hadn’t killed herself yet. I felt like I was only doing this book because Heavenly Father asked me to do it. I felt like I was being obedient to a prompting. I thought maybe it’s not going to happen. In very literal terms, Heavenly Father could not come to me and say “We can’t publish this book, because Meg hasn’t died yet.” I saw very clearly the timing and pacing of God, and I don’t always see that. When people feel this desire (or mission) on their heart of being a speaker, or a writer, or going back to college, or having a baby…I always say, listen to those feelings in your heart even though you keep hitting a wall.
The reason I highlight that story is that it has opened the door for so many interfaith speaking events and missionary opportunities. I’ve had atheists and agnostics write to me who’ve lost someone years earlier and found healing in reading this book. I think it was such an important “why.” It’s interesting to see the cycles. There’s so much more awareness now, and so oftentimes I’ll have a group come to me and give me their big list of worries, thinking their organization is the only one that has those concerns. And I guarantee you, that for the next year, that’s the main issue.
My book, You Are More Than Enough, You Are Magnificent—when I wrote that, nobody knew I was writing except my editor. We were working on this project and for the next nine months the request I got was, “The women in our group don’t feel enough.” Sometimes we feel like we’re going through something as a family, a community, a nation, and we do not realize that people are going through these private struggles. Unfortunately, there are patterns. Now I’m seeing a lot of faith-weariness. People are struggling to know how to stay engaged with a faith practice or religion. Families are being rocked with the fact that people are leaving the Church, and they’re not sure how to navigate those relationships. I feel that writing and speaking is a mission. That means that at any point Heavenly Father says, “You’re done.” I’ve had to walk away from some really important stuff.
SF: You’ve been asked about suicide so often. What do you think we should be teaching or saying about suicide within the Church—maybe something we’re not doing? What would you like to see us talking about regarding suicide prevention?
GLC: We have a unique opportunity as a faith community to frame a conversation around suicide that is different than what is already being said. Suicide is a very complex issue. Why is there such an increase? Is it an LGBT issue? Is it elevation in Utah? Is it about the Church because we have a perfectionist concept of living? All of us have risk factors and insulation factors. Religion can be an insulator.
My sister dealt with learning disabilities. There are some disabilities, disability attorneys serving in Arizona can be checked out!She had been a victim of abuse. She had dealt with long-term depression and anxiety. All of those are things your readers also experience but maybe they’re not having suicidal ideation.
I believe suicide is a last-days problem. The scriptures say that in the last days, “men’s hearts will fail them.” That doesn’t mean I won’t try to help prevent. I think we need to frame it to let our audience know we’re in a war. The enemy to our peace is the adversary. He doesn’t have a body, family, or faith. He attacks what he will never have. When I’m talking to a group who is high-risk or vulnerable (teens, prisoners), I frame it as a war we were prepared for.
One of my favorite analogies from the scriptures is the woman with the issue of blood. She worked for thirteen years to try to overcome an issue. She watched her neighbors get better by trying this oil or that specialist, or tried that diet or exercise program and got better. What was the biggest problem over time? Discouragement? For me that feels very much like chronic depression or anxiety. It becomes isolating and starts to change how you feel about yourself. The Spirit struggles to get through.
I try to encourage those who are fighting that they are the warriors who can help others in the future. The woman with the issue of blood tried one more thing. What made her try one more time to do one more thing? She went out that day to touch the Savior’s robe and only touched the hem. He knew her. When he turned to her and said her faith was whole, her faith was really messy. Her faith was the faith of not having a miracle that was written up in The Ensign next month. Her faith was thirteen years of everything she tried, she got worse, not better. I know people are tired. What I usually yell from the pulpit is “Stay in your body!” It’s okay to say I’m tired. The woman with the issue of blood came up with a Plan B. She’s my hero. That’s the messaging that expands our hope.
I don’t believe my sister is damned. I believe in eternal progression. I believe our bodies are the vehicles by which our spirit still has to work out those issues. A lot of times suicide is because the person wants the pain to stop. I hope people hear when I speak…I at least have one to three people say they had their suicide planned. They hear me talk about how we need them and they’re still going to have to work out some of these things. Part of mortality is that we have imperfect bodies, and yet, I know it’s been, my great teacher. We need to do a better job of saying to those within our faith community that this isn’t a crisis of faith. Those who’ve had that issue of blood and survived can validate others. Pray for another Plan B. Some days going to the temple helps and some days it’s sleeping that helps. We can talk about it with an eternal perspective.
SF: You have a special affinity for the Youth, and I do, too. What do you think we could be doing better or teaching the youth in our Church?
GLC: It’s okay to have questions. Sometimes people think that Joseph Smith went to God to ask about religion. He was also a boy asking about his standing with God as a teenager. The prophet of God who ushered in the Restoration was an imperfect teenage boy. He didn’t get every answer in the grove. He had to get up and sit in the paradox of not having every answer. He had to struggle with his insecurities and mortality. I would love for the teenagers of today to realize that it’s okay they’re not perfect. If they choose to be in the Church, they can still love their friends and family members who aren’t.
Let’s take the LGBT community. I have dear friends in and out of the Church in that community. We talk openly that some use that issue as justification to walk away from the faith, and they think that by doing that, they’re showing their support. The Savior was perfectly obedient to His Father. He never wavered on his moral values. And he never wavered in being 100% loving to the marginalized groups that the Sadducees and Pharisees didn’t want in the temple. He was serving the lepers, the sinners, the women, the children. The Pharisaical leaders of the time were angry he was doing that. But he never once stopped living by the commandments. I would like the teenagers to see that living their faith isn’t going to prevent them from hard things happening and it doesn’t mean that they’re not loving to people who don’t live like they live.
We need to start talking about policy versus doctrine versus culture. In the children of Israel’s case, they weren’t supposed to eat bacon but they could drink wine and live polygamy. Today we’re not supposed to drink wine or practice polygamy, but we can eat bacon on our hamburgers. Some of that was policy, some culture, some doctrine. When we’re living in a growing Church, God is not panicked by the imperfect leaders he’s trusting the CHurch organization with.
I like to talk about the really uncomfortable stuff. The teens are saying thank you for talking about my same-sex attraction, or my addiction, my anxiety, my learning disability. I feel like Satan gets to talk about sex all the time. Why aren’t we talking about it in a way that we take it back? Joseph Smith wrestled with the Spirit and made mistakes and went forward. We need to stop framing it in a black and white way. It’s okay to have backburner issues.
I grew up in an all-black neighborhood in a divorced household. There was one other white family in my neighborhood—the gay couple across the street. From a very young age, I was put in situations where I didn’t feel any conflict having different faith practices than the people around me. It’s okay to say I don’t understand all the reasons why God is directing the prophet to change the policy. Or, I don’t understand why sometimes Heavenly Father trusts his leaders to use their own understanding and they really mess it up. Are we really equipping our kids (and we have a prophet today who is calling them to enlist)? Sometimes we whitewash it so much. I try to go in a respectful way to those uncomfortable topics so that they stop thinking they have to get answers on Google and walk away from their faith so that their friends will love them. We need to say, “You’re going to get offended. You’re going to have imperfect leaders who make mistakes—sometimes big ones.” That’s one of the great paradoxes of being part of a church organization. There’s no other organization that has temple covenants. Those covenants have kept me, so I’m going to keep keeping my covenants.
SF: There is so much emphasis on self-validation today. What do you think of this idea that if everyone is special, no one is?
GLC: In Mosiah when King Benjamin talks about us being less than the dust of the earth. What does that have to do with self-worth? You need to understand that the dust of the earth is exactly obedient to God. Meekness is not a characteristic that our society values. No one says “I love that leader because they’re so meek.” When King Benjamin was teaching people, he was teaching meekness. He’s saying check your ego at the door. I got in trouble with some groups on Twitter a couple of months ago because I really believe that my sister’s suicide, my chronic illness, my infertility, etc…all of those are stewardship assignments. When we get a raise at work, we say, Praise God, but when we lose a job we’re not saying praise God. Nephi taught this perfectly when he was tied up on the ship because he had learned through his crazy brothers how to be the prophet. He had stewardship assignments.
When I go into this ego place where I feel like God has abandoned me, it’s because I have an ownership problem. I don’t own anything. King Benjamin was trying to say that the dust of the earth knows who they are and you guys are thinking you’re god of yourself. God loves me enough to say, you’re underemployed. I could be distracted by “I’m not getting asked to speak where Brene Brown is being asked to speak.” We can get in trouble with worrying about how many followers, or how many this or that. God is always teaching me to surrender. The fruits of my labor is not necessarily what I thought it would look like. Am I trusting him that marriage, parenthood, writing books is in His hands? He’s consecrating my effort? I love that a nursery leader could be called as the Stake President the next week. And God doesn’t love Pres. Nelson more than he loves me.
I get discouraged. That’s where Satan can shut us down the most—like we have to be like everyone else. And when King Benjamin says we’re less than dust, we can realize we’re all dependent on God. We do this.
SF: Yes—when Christ is more central in our lives, humility comes more naturally. As writers and public speakers, some of us feel the “Imposter Syndrome.” Do you ever experience that?
GLC: (laughing) Yes! Every day! The week I wrote the chapter on beauty (in Magnificent) was the week I had the worst body issues ever. So if you’re called to be a messenger— which would be the umbrella term for speakers/authors— I do feel like we have spiritual gifts. I feel like one of mine is that I speak a certain way that translates issues in the scriptures or brings real-life perspective on faith. The gospels are the same story repeated by how many authors? Why do we read five versions of it? I hopefully am staying relevant because I’m still learning.
Yesterday, I got so triggered by jealousy by one person in our industry. I called my friend and was super honest. She asked if it’s okay to be jealous. I said I guess. I teach to trust God, and now I’m going into comparisons and not trusting him. I’m pretty honest and raw. I’m clear that I’m willing to stand up and talk about uncomfortable things. That’s my way of building the kingdom right now.
SF: We’re seeing a flood of depictions about Heavenly Mother from LDS writers, visual artists, poets, etc. What do you think of this, and how do you think LDS artists should handle writing, creating art, and speaking about Her?
GLC: I think it’s important to note that patterns are important for me. Any time I start to see a trend, I go back to Heavenly Father’s patterns. Families are a pattern. We can become so hyper-focused on something that it becomes a distraction. Heavenly Father knows my heart as a woman. I’ve been an endowed member of the Church for 28 years. The presentation of the endowment has changed many times. We’re in a living, breathing Church. As a culture, the Church is an organization…When we talk about Heavenly Mother, I believe that we’ll receive more understanding, and it doesn’t need to become our stumbling block.
The recent policy reversal was a stumbling block for a large group in the Church. The faith of those who navigated that issue and stayed has been inspiring. You better pray that you have someone who is LGBTQ who is willing to teach Gospel Doctrine. If they’re still wrestling with their sexuality and their faith, they have come to know Christ in a very personal way.
As women in the Church, we’ve had to work through some cultural issues, but I think Jesus understood that. New Testament study has renewed my faith in how Heavenly Father feels about me as a female. We also believe that the Bible has lost many parts. Won’t it be sad if people argue themselves out of the Church over issues about Heavenly Mother, or priesthood authority, or LGBT issues, or they’ve walked out of the Church? And then what happens when we receive more knowledge and information? I have to pray a lot through some things. I have to understand my Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother on a very personal level. I own everything Eliza Snow has her name on. She was controversial in her time and stood up boldly to talk about the temple. She redefined her role as a woman in the family. She wrote a beautiful hymn about Heavenly Mother.
SF: Do you think it’s okay that some are talking about Heavenly Mother? And you’re waiting for the further revelation before you say more?
GLC: I believe that there are things that we’ve lost that will be restored. In the meantime, your relationship with Heavenly Father and Mother is not put on hold until someone talks about it. If I have the lens of doubting and fearing, that stops the flow of revelation to me. I have to be careful not to get hung up on something that will make it so I don’t progress. I’m not saying that I don’t get hungry in my soul for more. I’m saying let’s be careful. It’s okay to ask a question, but we have to be careful that we message in a way that [doesn’t] create a division. I’m grateful there are people asking questions and doing research. I’m grateful for The Saints book that has layers that in the past haven’t been talked about in Sunday School. I’m not saying put the subject on hold. I’m saying that people can use that as their “why” because their love of the Divine Feminine is such a focus that it pulls them out.
There are certain things that have changed in the endowment that were triggering for some. In my wrestling, Heavenly Father let me know that there’s more coming. Heavenly Father is trying to get the people ready. When we ask our questions in a way that influences anger… all of us are going to be faced with issues in the Church that will trip us up. Heavenly Father trusts us with these. I hope that we will receive more information.
I think we have to be careful about the responsibility we have on social media platforms. I have to temper everything in my life because anything can get out of balance. We do ache for women in the scriptures. We do a disservice when we don’t emphasize women. I wish women would raise their hand in Sunday School. I want them to share their thoughts. I believe my Heavenly Mother has a unique perspective. I look forward to learning more about Her.
SF: I’m asking more about creative artists. You can almost “get away” with writing about or depicting Heavenly Mother creatively because we say this is my perception of my relationship with her or my frustration with why I don’t have a relationship with her. We may have a niche in creative arts that others might not enjoy.
GLC: I love that our artwork allows us something we can consider. I also feel like Pres. Hinckley has been re-quoted that the major growth of the Church will happen because the women of the Church will be distinct in happy ways. Ardeth Kapp was given a blessing by Pres. Hinckley that said here will be a day when the women of the Church will rise up as a mighty dragon to take over. As women, we should crave and seek out knowledge in every area, but we cannot fall victim to discord. I’m saying that artists, writers, and musicians that are having their hearts touched are on track with what Heavenly Father is revealing.
SF: What would present-day Ganel-Lyn tell twenty-two-year-old Ganel-Lyn?
GLC: You don’t need so much hairspray in the 80s! In all seriousness, Heavenly Father has your happiness in his hands. All the heartache will be consecrated for my good. Those people we thought had it all together in high school were still trying to figure it out.
More Ganel-Lyn at http://ganellyn.com/about.php
Watch this video about suicide prevention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucO0BwUCHoE
Books & Writings
I Can Do Hard Things with God (February 2015)
I Can Forgive with God (August 2016)
I Can Choose Joy with God (March 2019)
The Perfect Gift (October 2016)
The Decision that Changed my Life (January 2017)
Mother to Mother (March 2017)
You are More Than Enough, You are Magnificent (March 2018)
Everyday Faith column in the Daily Herald
DVD & Audio
You Are Lionproof (February 2019)
Find Your Happy DVD/Documentary with Hank Smith and other well-known LDS personalities (2017)
You Are Already Walking on Water Audio talk on CD (February 2018)
Media
YouTube Channel
Come Follow Me Video Weekly Series
Host of Women of Worth Wednesday / Hi Five Live Facebook
Good Things Utah contributor
The Lisa Show contributor
